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post #1 of 36 Old 02-08-2017, 06:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Bowers & Wilkins DB Series Subs Announced

There are three new subs from Bowers and Wilkins, the flagship 2000-watt dual-12" DB1D ($4500), the 1000-watt dual-10" DB2D ($3500), and the compact dual-8" DB3D ($2500). Click the link for more info: http://01900888.com/bowers-wilki...ers-announced/
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post #2 of 36 Old 02-08-2017, 10:21 AM
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Something seems off about dual-12" sub costing $4500 i can get three Rythmik F25 that has dual 15'' drivers at that price with money left over for a snack from the corner store or just get four FVX15 15'' with money left over for an expensive dinner.

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post #3 of 36 Old 02-08-2017, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by MrGrey View Post
Something seems off about dual-12" sub costing $4500 i can get three Rythmik F25 that has dual 15'' drivers at that price with money left over for a snack from the corner store or just get four FVX15 15'' with money left over for an expensive dinner.
They ARE claiming -3 is 10hz, which would be impressive. But at the price point, its competitors are things like the Funk 18.0 or a DSS Marina or JTR S1 or stuff from Seaton.

I am currious how they perform, though I don't really imagine they can actually match the competition, if they can get close, that's still a good improvement. Let's be real, they will sell a lot of these with 805D3s since people have a tendency to favor matching things and we all know stores like Magnolia will push people to them.

Given that they are including room EQ and such, to me it seems like they are targeting JLs Fathom line, which makes sense to me for B&W to do. A great many B&W dealers also sell JL subs and I would imagine their are quite a few systems using that pairing right now. Dual 12" should be able to match or better an f113.
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post #4 of 36 Old 02-08-2017, 11:00 AM
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At this price point, people want matching hardware. I have been waiting for this announcement as the old sub only went down to 17hz, which is not as low as the 800D3 or 802D3. I'm sure they will sell a lot of the 8" subs with the 805D3 as that gets you a 802D3 type of sound for a lot less. (purely guessing).

I was going to complain that all three subs are rated the same down to 10Hz but I guess Rythmik does the same with but at 14hz for the F-series sealed subs.
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post #5 of 36 Old 02-08-2017, 11:40 AM
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Does anyone else find it a little odd that they are claiming their 12 inch drivers dig down to 10Hz? Even with 2 KW of power, their voice coil can only displace the driver so far. They don't use a servo design either making it harder to believe. As a reference, the SVS SB16 Ultra (sealed box) only goes down to 16Hz with 1.5 KW RMS using an 8 inch voice coil! Before dropping $4500 on this bad boy, I would wait for actual real world testing.
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post #6 of 36 Old 02-08-2017, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Blacklightning View Post
At this price point, people want matching hardware.
Maybe I am the exception, but as someone who has owned B&W 8XX series speakers for more than a dozen years, I've not had any inclination to buy "matching" subs from B&W. I love the B&W sound from their speakers, and will pay for it, but the cost and performance of their subs has left me cold. I think subs with better performance and value can be obtained from a number of other vendors such as SVS, Hsu and Power Sound Audio. I guess I am not convinced that it is necessary to match a sub with speakers from the same manufacturer.

Please note that I am not implying that Blacklightning is saying that it is necessary to match a sub with speakers from the same company! I know that he/she is just making an observation that this is what Magnolia and other stores will tell their uneducated customers!

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post #7 of 36 Old 02-08-2017, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Jish9 View Post
Does anyone else find it a little odd that they are claiming their 12 inch drivers dig down to 10Hz? Even with 2 KW of power, their voice coil can only displace the driver so far. They don't use a servo design either making it harder to believe. As a reference, the SVS SB16 Ultra (sealed box) only goes down to 16Hz with 1.5 KW RMS using an 8 inch voice coil! Before dropping $4500 on this bad boy, I would wait for actual real world testing.
It's not a single 12", its dual opposing 12". So lets say our woofers are flat (they aren't but the math is sooo much easier). That means the 12" cone has an area of around 113sq.in. A 15in cone would have 176sq.in, an 18in cone is only 254sq.in. That means the dual 12" woofer is only a bit underneath the surface area of an 18" woofer (yes the math will vary more with cones, but the general trend should be the same. If nothing else dual 12" can match/exceed a 15".

For those who are interested the 10" would be 78.5 and the 8" would be 50 which means in general the size comparisons would be 8->12 10->15 12->18.

There are also some genuine advantages to having dual opposing drivers as they help cancel each other out inside the box.

The actual spec sheet lists -6db at 8.5hz -3db at 10hz (centered on 100hz which is surprisingly specific), what they don't do is list the actual spl, so who knows how loud it can actually go to do this. Almost any sub can play "flat" if you limit the volume enough .


I will also say, the 800D3 can play to 15hz with dual 10" drivers while in theory handling way more load (I'm fairly certain they are crossed at like 300-500hz). So the idea of 2 of those drivers with 2000w playing to 10hz in a dedicated subwoofer doesn't seem all that unlikely to me, and that's before you move them up to 12".

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Maybe I am the exception, but as someone who has owned B&W 8XX series speakers for more than a dozen years, I've not had any inclination to buy "matching" subs from B&W. I love the B&W sound from their speakers, and will pay for it, but the cost and performance of their subs has left me cold. I think subs with better performance and value can be obtained from a number of other vendors such as SVS, Hsu and Power Sound Audio. I guess I am not convinced that it is necessary to match a sub with speakers from the same manufacturer.

Please note that I am not implying that Blacklightning is saying that it is necessary to match a sub with speakers from the same company! I know that he/she is just making an observation that this is what Magnolia and other stores will tell their uneducated customers!
You have to remember, there are a LOT of non-audiophiles who buy B&W speakers. Like a TON.
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post #8 of 36 Old 02-08-2017, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jish9
Does anyone else find it a little odd that they are claiming their 12 inch drivers dig down to 10Hz? ...
Nope. The PV1D - with two 8"drivers and a 400W amp - was spec'd at 7.5-450Hz +/-3dB.
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post #9 of 36 Old 02-08-2017, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jish9
Does anyone else find it a little odd that they are claiming their 12 inch drivers dig down to 10Hz? ...
Nope. The PV1D - with two 8"drivers and a 400W amp - was spec'd at 7.5-450Hz +/-3dB.
But at what level. It may be able to play that low in room, but it's not gonna magically beat physics. I'd bet it's only at like 80-90db peak at 20hz.

Edit:



The PV1 is the blue line. Not exactly 7.5-450 +/- 3db. They measured -3 at 25hz and 232hz. Not bad at all for such a tiny sub, but they would have to EQ and reduce peak volume a good bit to make 7.5hz the -3.
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post #10 of 36 Old 02-08-2017, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal68 View Post
I love the B&W sound from their speakers, and will pay for it, but the cost and performance of their subs has left me cold.

Please note that I am not implying that Blacklightning is saying that it is necessary to match a sub with speakers from the same company! I know that he/she is just making an observation that this is what Magnolia and other stores will tell their uneducated customers!
You hit the nail on the head. I would think that must at this price point are buying because of the name and or because the dealer got them to pick a great B&W speakers. If they can afford the price of the B&W sub they are not going to pick an SVS, PSA, or Rythmik because they will get a few DB's and they is no way the dealer will tell them those cheaper subs are better. An educated buyer will just tell the dealer that they will think about it and buy the ID anyway. The typical buyer will buy what the dealer wants them to buy.

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But at what level. It may be able to play that low in room, but it's not gonna magically beat physics. I'd bet it's only at like 80-90db peak at 20hz.
The PV1 is the blue line. Not exactly 7.5-450 +/- 3db. They measured -3 at 25hz and 232hz. Not bad at all for such a tiny sub, but they would have to EQ and reduce peak volume a good bit to make 7.5hz the -3.
80-90db is all that is needed for a good Music only setup. As much as we see B&W HT systems I still think there main focus is Music so I'm okay with a lower db rating. Plus "we" are not fooled by the ratings of most brands so I do not really care about ratings on high priced stuff. If someone wants to pay big money of the PV1 and they really think that a tiny sub like that can play twice as deep as a Rythmik F12, I just hope they are happy and that they never test both subs with a mic.
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post #11 of 36 Old 02-08-2017, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by amnesia0287 View Post
It's not a single 12", its dual opposing 12". So lets say our woofers are flat (they aren't but the math is sooo much easier). That means the 12" cone has an area of around 113sq.in. A 15in cone would have 176sq.in, an 18in cone is only 254sq.in. That means the dual 12" woofer is only a bit underneath the surface area of an 18" woofer (yes the math will vary more with cones, but the general trend should be the same. If nothing else dual 12" can match/exceed a 15".

For those who are interested the 10" would be 78.5 and the 8" would be 50 which means in general the size comparisons would be 8->12 10->15 12->18.

There are also some genuine advantages to having dual opposing drivers as they help cancel each other out inside the box.

The actual spec sheet lists -6db at 8.5hz -3db at 10hz (centered on 100hz which is surprisingly specific), what they don't do is list the actual spl, so who knows how loud it can actually go to do this. Almost any sub can play "flat" if you limit the volume enough .


I will also say, the 800D3 can play to 15hz with dual 10" drivers while in theory handling way more load (I'm fairly certain they are crossed at like 300-500hz). So the idea of 2 of those drivers with 2000w playing to 10hz in a dedicated subwoofer doesn't seem all that unlikely to me, and that's before you move them up to 12".



You have to remember, there are a LOT of non-audiophiles who buy B&W speakers. Like a TON.
I agree but It's hard to make a comparison without knowing the T/S parameters of the drivers being compared. Linear travel(xmax) is a big player in overall displacement along with cone area. One 15" driver with 30mm xmax will have more displacement capability then 2 12" drivers with 8mm xmax.

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post #12 of 36 Old 02-09-2017, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by MrGrey View Post
Something seems off about dual-12" sub costing $4500 i can get three Rythmik F25 that has dual 15'' drivers at that price with money left over for a snack from the corner store or just get four FVX15 15'' with money left over for an expensive dinner.
Actually they come packed with Ceddar and Watercrackers served on a gold plater to avoid unwanted interferences

Jokes apart, I find hardly justifiable spending all that cash on these subs. First of all people who buy such equipment normally uses it in dedicated rooms for music listening only (as a pure audiophile should). So I do not see any reason for having to force anyone to beleive that they can actually run as low as 10Hz unless they think that the future owners also have their private zoo with elefents and want to give them too the joy of listening to a great piece of equipment.
After having heared several B&W subs, REL's and the like I settled with Rythmik. They do not hype or brag about their data and they do what a sub suppose to do: compliment the main system without over riding it, which is what I find many do with their systems. Million of watts and thousand of decibels in 75 cubic metres rooms (2600 cuf for those who are not familiar with the measurement units on the other side of the pond).
Back to the subject, these subs are mainly ment to play with music material even in high fidelity (whatever that means nowdays) multichanel setups. So there is no need for them to achieve 120 dB at 10 Hz. And with the new tendency of B&W to focus on the higher end of the audio spectrum in their highly acclaimed loudspeaker range, there is no doubt that something more focused on the lower end of the spectrum will be more than welcomed by the owners of the 800 series.
One thing's for sure: it is nice to see that a company like B&W is acknowledging the need for subs even in systems expensive and fully loaded as their 800 series.
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post #13 of 36 Old 02-09-2017, 02:21 PM
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Thank goodness for internet direct sub companies is all I can say.

I love my Velodyne DD15, (that I got at 1/3 the ridiculous $4500 MSRP a few years back as a courtesy from Velodyne after they couldn't repair my ULD15), but, for sure, when it can't be repaired I'll be looking at Rhythmik for sure.

I will say one thing about the 7 B&W speakers I bought in the mid 80's, each and every one is STILL in use by someone I know to this very day.

Geoff A. J., California
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post #14 of 36 Old 02-09-2017, 03:40 PM
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Specification-wise, all three subs dig deep into the infrasonic realm thanks to a -3 dB point of 10 Hz.

But none of them will have enough volume displacement to do it at any sort of worthwhile level. $4500 for a pair of twelves is theft.
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post #15 of 36 Old 02-09-2017, 04:11 PM
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Too expensive, B&W drop the ball again in their sub woofer line...

And this is a guy who has their 800 series...

Time to see the light and reduce pricing...

I really do not care if they can go a little lower than the rithmik, svs etc... if they really can in the real world..

Get 2 or 3 or even 4 of the other ones for the price of this one... hell you can get a used f113 from JL for less... and I am sure the jl is better...
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post #16 of 36 Old 02-09-2017, 04:15 PM
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Maybe its really long throw drivers. Like maybe 10 inch excursion.

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post #17 of 36 Old 02-09-2017, 05:45 PM
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I absolutely love my BWs that I have for my fronts but I would never pay that much for a sub. A couple of weeks ago I bought dual svs subs and couldn't be happier. And the cost was a quarter of this price point.
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post #18 of 36 Old 02-09-2017, 08:56 PM
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I absolutely love my BWs that I have for my fronts but I would never pay that much for a sub. A couple of weeks ago I bought dual svs subs and couldn't be happier. And the cost was a quarter of this price point.
Congrats?

Bare in mind these are being sold to pair with the 800 Diamond Series. The bookshelves are 5k, the smallest towers are like 10k. I would agree at 4500, there are better options. That's around what I paid for my dual 18.0c's. But I don't really feel like spending 75% of your speaker cost on a subwoofer is that unreasonable, especially given that sub-woofers actually include their amplification, and that thanks to physics, its 10x as much work each time you cut the frequency and half which means which means from 80hz -> 20hz you have increased the required work 100x.

I kinda think it would be lunacy to pair some 804d3 with something like some SB-1000s though given that the f3 of both is 24hz. That would mean ruining your overall integration would be hurt for the added benefit of no extra extension. For a sub to really be an improvement for an 804d3, you would need a substantially more capable sub. Something like the SB16 might do okay, but the claimed f3 is only 16hz, and realistically the comparison would be closer to the 10" DB sub, not the 12". The 12" db sub is 2" shorter, 3" narrower and 4" shallower than an SB16. More than likely it should be louder, and given they are claiming -3db from 100hz at both 10hz and 350hz, it could also be more accurate.

Not to say the SVS is a bad sub by any measure, its just to say there is a reason the B&W cost more. The question is even more complicated if you were rocking 803D3s ($14000 i think) as their F3 is 19hz. Yeah, the SB16 could go 3hz lower, and removing some of the load on the speaker could be good, but why pay $2000 for 3hz of infrasonic sound. That money would be better spent added to the amp budget for the 803d3s. For a sub to really be sensible to pair with speakers like that, it needs to really have a pretty big extension advantage and at least match the output abilities of the speaker. Subs like Funk, Seaton, DSS, JTR all produce subs that would fit this bill, many at a price point bellow 4500 or even 3000 really, but it totally makes sense for B&W to get in on this. They also are providing some degree of added value by including automated room correction, how capable it is remains to be seen. It's also not surprising that B&W subs of a similar caliber would cost more considering that all the competition is ID and B&W is likely spending millions just on marketing.
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post #19 of 36 Old 07-14-2017, 11:34 PM
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Have you listened to the new db series?
Do you share your experiences?

Paradigm prestige 1000w (3000 $)
Db2d (3500 $) or db3d (2500 $)
Which one is yours ??
Thank you
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post #20 of 36 Old 07-15-2017, 08:30 AM
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These subs are not made to appeal to the average AVS member.....people who research enough to know what they are getting, what actually makes a difference and what doesn't.

These are audio jewelry subs....they will be purchased by those who spend $5k on an amp because it "sounds better"(sorry, I've never "heard" an amp, only speakers and the room they are in), spend a fortune on cables and power cords to make sure the signal is "pure", and because their system is so high end that these details matter, unlike in a lower cost system that is not as detailed, airy, revealing, accurate, as the artist intended etc etc etc.

These people would never buy a $1k sub that actual testing reveals performs better in all metrics. This is for people that hear what they think they hear, and a $4500 B&W sub will be more detailed, subtle, accurate, fast, musical, tight, crisp and provide better imaging and soundstage than any non "hi-fi" ID sub could ever hope to be. B&W would be foolish to price these close to what they are worth, as their intended audience would then pass them over.


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post #21 of 36 Old 07-15-2017, 08:42 AM
 
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These subs are not made to appeal to the average AVS member.....people who research enough to know what they are getting, what actually makes a difference and what doesn't.

These are audio jewelry subs....they will be purchased by those who spend $5k on an amp because it "sounds better"(sorry, I've never "heard" an amp, only speakers and the room they are in), spend a fortune on cables and power cords to make sure the signal is "pure", and because their system is so high end that these details matter, unlike in a lower cost system that is not as detailed, airy, revealing, accurate, as the artist intended etc etc etc.

These people would never buy a $1k sub that actual testing reveals performs better in all metrics. This is for people that hear what they think they hear, and a $4500 B&W sub will be more detailed, subtle, accurate, fast, musical, tight, crisp and provide better imaging and soundstage than any non "hi-fi" ID sub could ever hope to be. B&W would be foolish to price these close to what they are worth, as their intended audience would then pass them over.


This sub is known as a convenient sale when you drop 15K on some 800 series. Thank You, Mr. Customer, can I show you the matching sub that we recommend to go w/ your gorgeous towers.
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post #22 of 36 Old 07-15-2017, 08:53 AM
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This sub is known as a convenient sale when you drop 15K on some 800 series. Thank You, Mr. Customer, can I show you the matching sub that we recommend to go w/ your gorgeous towers.
How about, "although not in everyone's budget, most truly discerning music lovers use dual subs."
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post #23 of 36 Old 07-15-2017, 12:23 PM
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What I find funny that we spent on average way more on a sub than a single speaker in our system. But high-end buyers are spending a faction on a sub that goes with their speakers. True be told the price of the B&W sub is about the same price as what these guys will spend on cables, wires, and power cords in there system.
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post #24 of 36 Old 09-17-2017, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
These subs are not made to appeal to the average AVS member.....people who research enough to know what they are getting, what actually makes a difference and what doesn't.

These are audio jewelry subs....they will be purchased by those who spend $5k on an amp because it "sounds better"(sorry, I've never "heard" an amp, only speakers and the room they are in), spend a fortune on cables and power cords to make sure the signal is "pure", and because their system is so high end that these details matter, unlike in a lower cost system that is not as detailed, airy, revealing, accurate, as the artist intended etc etc etc.

These people would never buy a $1k sub that actual testing reveals performs better in all metrics. This is for people that hear what they think they hear, and a $4500 B&W sub will be more detailed, subtle, accurate, fast, musical, tight, crisp and provide better imaging and soundstage than any non "hi-fi" ID sub could ever hope to be. B&W would be foolish to price these close to what they are worth, as their intended audience would then pass them over.


Just wondering, I'm eyeing these new subs for my 800 series B&W but I'm hearing often that they are overpriced.

Can you explain why exactly you think that? As far as I understand these subs should perform very well in how fast and detailed they are (Subs generally produce muddy sound). Are there other subs that can provide the same speed and detail?
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post #25 of 36 Old 09-17-2017, 12:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by christoffeldg View Post
Just wondering, I'm eyeing these new subs for my 800 series B&W but I'm hearing often that they are overpriced.

Can you explain why exactly you think that? As far as I understand these subs should perform very well in how fast and detailed they are (Subs generally produce muddy sound). Are there other subs that can provide the same speed and detail?
Now that is a generalization if I've ever read one. Bad setup results in far more instances of muddy sound than the design of any reasonably decent subwoofer that gets the basics right.

Paying more can get you many things: More output, smaller size, better DSP, favorable aesthetics, to name a few. Lots of options in subwoofer land. Not everyone is a bottom-dollar, aesthetics-be-damned shopper. But suffice to say that if the size and finish of a sub is not a great concern, you can find options with a higher technical price/performance ratio.

Mark Henninger, Senior Editor at AVS Forum

Last edited by imagic; 09-17-2017 at 01:40 PM.
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post #26 of 36 Old 09-17-2017, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Now that is a generalization if I've ever read one. Bad setup results in far more instances if muddy sound than the design of any reasonably decent subwoofer that gets the basics right.

Paying more can get you many things: More output, smaller size, better DSP, favorable aesthetics, to name a few. Lots of options in subwoofer land. Not everyone is a bottom-dollar, aesthetics-be-damned shopper. But suffice to say that if the size and finish of a sub is not a great concern, you can find options with a higher technical price/performance ratio.
I dissagree with that tho, muddy sound is definitely part of the quality of a sub. Good setup is to make sure there are no nulls, but I don't think it adds much to clear up the sound. No vibrations and a good (external) DSP against room reflections seem far more important to me.
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post #27 of 36 Old 09-17-2017, 04:57 PM
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From the product brochure:
" App-based set-up means DB Series subwoofers are simple to configure and use. ... The Room EQ system allows you to optimise the subwoofer’s
performance for your room using the microphone built into your phone. The App is available for both iOS and Android."

So I am supposed to calibrate a $4,500 subwoofer using a smartphone with a mic designed for speech intelligibility in noisy environments? Are there graphs anywhere showing the accuracy over say 12 Hz to 200 Hz for apps that use a smartphone mic? Or the mic itself.

This idea looks to me incredibly stupid from a marketing, it assumes customers have a smartphone and love to play with it, and a technical, questionable accuracy of app and hardware, viewpoint. Someone please tell me I am wrong. If using this product were basically like D.A.R.O. from JLA I would be most interested. If setup is only a crap/app I am not.

"Most people would die sooner than think, in fact they do so."  Bertrand Russell The ABC of Relativity, 1925

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post #28 of 36 Old 09-17-2017, 05:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by humbug2 View Post
From the product brochure:
" App-based set-up means DB Series subwoofers are simple to configure and use. ... The Room EQ system allows you to optimise the subwoofer’s
performance for your room using the microphone built into your phone. The App is available for both iOS and Android."

So I am supposed to calibrate a $4,500 subwoofer using a smartphone with a mic designed for speech intelligibility in noisy environments? Are there graphs anywhere showing the accuracy over say 12 Hz to 200 Hz for apps that use a smartphone mic? Or the mic itself.

This idea looks to me incredibly stupid from a marketing, it assumes customers have a smartphone and love to play with it, and a technical, questionable accuracy of app and hardware, viewpoint. Someone please tell me I am wrong. If using this product were basically like D.A.R.O. from JLA I would be most interested. If setup is only a crap/app I am not.
The general idea is that the supported phones have profiled mics (so not all Android phones are supported, iOS mics are) and that once profiled, the error in cell phone mics is of nowhere near the magnitude of the peaks and nulls a room adds. At least that's my understanding, but maybe @Patrick Butler can elaborate and shed light, as he often does on all matters B&W.

D.A.R.O. by JL Audio is accurate and effective, no doubt. But the word I heard is don't underrate what a cellphone mic can do, especially when it comes to bass. YMMV, of course.

Mark Henninger, Senior Editor at AVS Forum

Last edited by imagic; 09-20-2017 at 05:55 AM.
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post #29 of 36 Old 09-19-2017, 02:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by christoffeldg View Post
Just wondering, I'm eyeing these new subs for my 800 series B&W but I'm hearing often that they are overpriced.

Can you explain why exactly you think that? As far as I understand these subs should perform very well in how fast and detailed they are (Subs generally produce muddy sound). Are there other subs that can provide the same speed and detail?
Try these:

http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/po...e-hpf2-7801701

Or these:

http://www.funkaudio.ca/store/p1/Funk_Audio_-_18.0.html

I have the SubMersive HP+ Master / Slave paired with B&W N804s and they are fantastic together. No mud to be found.
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post #30 of 36 Old 09-20-2017, 05:18 AM
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Hi Humbug,

The software in your phone is designed for speech intelligibility in noisy environments. The mic is just a mic. Once you know how a given mic deviates from a reference (this is the reason why we have limited support for Android,) you can create a calibration file for the mic. The same procedure is used with my UMIK 1 when I use REW.

My 97 yr old grandfather had a smart phone, and I'm guessing so do most of our customers. For the 10 who don't, I'm sure one of our dealers would be happy to come over and setup the subwoofer.

Best Regards,

Patrick Butler
B&W Group North America



Quote:
Originally Posted by humbug2 View Post
From the product brochure:
" App-based set-up means DB Series subwoofers are simple to configure and use. ... The Room EQ system allows you to optimise the subwoofer’s
performance for your room using the microphone built into your phone. The App is available for both iOS and Android."

So I am supposed to calibrate a $4,500 subwoofer using a smartphone with a mic designed for speech intelligibility in noisy environments? Are there graphs anywhere showing the accuracy over say 12 Hz to 200 Hz for apps that use a smartphone mic? Or the mic itself.

This idea looks to me incredibly stupid from a marketing, it assumes customers have a smartphone and love to play with it, and a technical, questionable accuracy of app and hardware, viewpoint. Someone please tell me I am wrong. If using this product were basically like D.A.R.O. from JLA I would be most interested. If setup is only a crap/app I am not.
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