Forum Jump: 
 170Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #241 of 251 Old 01-03-2019, 03:22 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 7,400
Mentioned: 154 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2700 Post(s)
Liked: 3275
Quote:
Originally Posted by baller02 View Post
To Check and reset lut or gamma changes you can use this tool.

http://www.xrite.com/service-suppor...ion-lut-tester
When you have CalMAN Client, bypass setting works better from X-Rite utility, because reset of X-Rite is not exact reset, you need to load a UNITY 1D LUT 16-bit to perform a correct 'reset'.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #242 of 251 Old 01-03-2019, 03:26 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 7,400
Mentioned: 154 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2700 Post(s)
Liked: 3275
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
It's interesting, in discussions with some folks, unless you abuse the C6, it's probably not going to drift. The biggest issue for these devices besides dropping them is changes in temperature. If you can keep it away from extreme temperature changes, like leaving it in the trunk of your car in the winter or checking it on an airline for example, it will probably stay in tolerance for a very long time. The older C6s had gel filters and they eventually change over time.
All C6's had exact same filters as any i1Display PRO instrument. C3 or C5 colorimeters had exposed filters only.

I have picture of the i1Display PRO (same as C6) filters here.
jrref likes this.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #243 of 251 Old 01-10-2019, 06:32 AM
Member
 
adsl-ryoga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 12
AF9 Calibration - what to look out for?

Hi,

I've just received my replacement AF9 TV and I'm planning to have it calibrated by an ISF calibration specialist.

There are a couple of things I'm interested in or worried about:

- once calibration is completed, is there anything specific I need to look out for? (like increased posterization artifacts, elevated blacks and more image noise)
- for HDR: will the calibrated color and gamma stay equally accurate when content is displayed in varying luminance-levels? Or to put it differently: will a scene at 100 Nits, which is confirmed to show correct color and gamma values, still exhibit correct gamma and color when shown at 1000 nits? This is probably a noob-question, but it has been occupying my mind lately
- what is your experience concerning Sony's newly implemented CMS, is it usable without side effects?

Thanks and best
Gregor
adsl-ryoga is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #244 of 251 Old 01-10-2019, 06:36 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: New York
Posts: 4,571
Mentioned: 139 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3707 Post(s)
Liked: 4420
Quote:
Originally Posted by adsl-ryoga View Post
Hi,

I've just received my replacement AF9 TV and I'm planning to have it calibrated by an ISF calibration specialist.

There are a couple of things I'm interested in or worried about:

- once calibration is completed, is there anything specific I need to look out for? (like increased posterization artifacts, elevated blacks and more image noise)
- for HDR: will the calibrated color and gamma stay equally accurate when content is displayed in varying luminance-levels? Or to put it differently: will a scene at 100 Nits, which is confirmed to show correct color and gamma values, still exhibit correct gamma and color when shown at 1000 nits? This is probably a noob-question, but it has been occupying my mind lately
- what is your experience concerning Sony's newly implemented CMS, is it usable without side effects?

Thanks and best
Gregor
This is why you are getting your set professionally calibrated, so you don't have to worry about any of this stuff.

John
Sony 55A1E, A9F / LG 55OLEDC8
Marantz 7012, Ohm Walsh Speakers
Klein K10-A, Jeti 1501, Murideo Six-G
Calman Ultimate, ISF Level III Certified
jrref is offline  
post #245 of 251 Old 01-10-2019, 06:42 AM
Member
 
adsl-ryoga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
This is why you are getting your set professionally calibrated, so you don't have to worry about any of this stuff.
True, but I'm quite paranoid I wonder if some calibrators will only look for perfect values on a chart and not taking into consideration artifacts... or I'm just watching too many reviews from Vincent Teoh :-/
adsl-ryoga is offline  
post #246 of 251 Old 01-10-2019, 07:02 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: New York
Posts: 4,571
Mentioned: 139 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3707 Post(s)
Liked: 4420
Quote:
Originally Posted by adsl-ryoga View Post
True, but I'm quite paranoid I wonder if some calibrators will only look for perfect values on a chart and not taking into consideration artifacts... or I'm just watching too many reviews from Vincent Teoh :-/
As a final comment on this topic, you hire a professional for their skill and experience. Hopefully you hired someone who was recommended. A professional will not only look at the charts but will use known content to evaluate the outcome to make sure it's perfect. It's their job to make sure they understand the limitations of the sets they work on and to use their knowledge to calibrate so they get the best possible outcome for your specific set.
shoman94 likes this.

John
Sony 55A1E, A9F / LG 55OLEDC8
Marantz 7012, Ohm Walsh Speakers
Klein K10-A, Jeti 1501, Murideo Six-G
Calman Ultimate, ISF Level III Certified
jrref is offline  
post #247 of 251 Old 01-10-2019, 07:20 AM
Member
 
adsl-ryoga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
As a final comment on this topic, you hire a professional for their skill and experience. Hopefully you hired someone who was recommended. A professional will not only look at the charts but will use known content to evaluate the outcome to make sure it's perfect. It's their job to make sure they understand the limitations of the sets they work on and to use their knowledge to calibrate so they get the best possible outcome for your specific set.
Well yes, this sounds reasonable The person wasn't recommenced to me, but he's the only person in my area who does ISF calibration and he is certified for the job... so there's a good chance he knows what he's doing... and I probably just have to dial down my apprehensions

In any case, thanks for your input!

Best
Gregor
shoman94 and jrref like this.

Last edited by adsl-ryoga; 01-10-2019 at 08:32 AM.
adsl-ryoga is offline  
post #248 of 251 Old 01-12-2019, 03:35 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 7,400
Mentioned: 154 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2700 Post(s)
Liked: 3275
Quote:
Originally Posted by adsl-ryoga View Post
Hi,

I've just received my replacement AF9 TV and I'm planning to have it calibrated by an ISF calibration specialist.

There are a couple of things I'm interested in or worried about:

- once calibration is completed, is there anything specific I need to look out for? (like increased posterization artifacts, elevated blacks and more image noise)
- for HDR: will the calibrated color and gamma stay equally accurate when content is displayed in varying luminance-levels? Or to put it differently: will a scene at 100 Nits, which is confirmed to show correct color and gamma values, still exhibit correct gamma and color when shown at 1000 nits? This is probably a noob-question, but it has been occupying my mind lately
- what is your experience concerning Sony's newly implemented CMS, is it usable without side effects?

Thanks and best
Gregor
Hi Gregor,

After the end of your calibration, for SDR display some Contrast/Brightness/Color Clipping and some patterns (from your movie source player) with gradation (grayscale/colors) to see that all are fine, also check some familiar to you content.

Generally its been reported from field calibrators that works better the AutoCAL of Grayscale and then manual cal of CMS (but when your calibrator it very expert, he can perform manual cal of grayscale which can provide better results, but take a lot of more time from him to finish that task compared the quicker AutoCAL procedure of grayscale)

Your calibrator will calibrate the picture mode where the TV based to that gamma based calibration will add the offset for you to have calibrated the HDR modes also.

For HDR10, Contrast/Brightness/Color Clipping pattern should be used only for evaluation, not for any adjustment.

Sony AF9 is doing frame-per-frame analysis with HDR content and dynamically adjust the tone mapping, generally with WRGB you can't have 1000 nits displayed to your screen (about 600-800 nits are possible) and also because of WRGB design you have lower color gamut than from an RGB panel, as explained very detailed here, the WRGB OLEDs due to the introduction of the 'white' sub-pixel, it distorts the standard RGB color channel relationship - excessively at HDR brightness levels. (if you sum the Y of 100% Saturation with 100% Luminance color patch of R+G+B primaries you get 400nits while the same time if you display a 100% White patch you get 800nit...so your color gamut is limited to 400 nits... this means that WRGB OLED's can never be calibrated for HDR for the level of accuracy is possible with SDR calibration.

Sony is very smart by introducing that kind of calibration procedure, where you calibrate the SDR mode (where the panel is more stable over the time than in HDR mode where its very unstable), so while it saves a lot of time (reduce calibration time required), you have calibrated at the end all modes based to that SDR calibration as baseline.
adsl-ryoga likes this.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #249 of 251 Old 01-14-2019, 02:46 AM
Member
 
adsl-ryoga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi Gregor,

After the end of your calibration, for SDR display some Contrast/Brightness/Color Clipping and some patterns (from your movie source player) with gradation (grayscale/colors) to see that all are fine, also check some familiar to you content.

Generally its been reported from field calibrators that works better the AutoCAL of Grayscale and then manual cal of CMS (but when your calibrator it very expert, he can perform manual cal of grayscale which can provide better results, but take a lot of more time from him to finish that task compared the quicker AutoCAL procedure of grayscale)

Your calibrator will calibrate the picture mode where the TV based to that gamma based calibration will add the offset for you to have calibrated the HDR modes also.

For HDR10, Contrast/Brightness/Color Clipping pattern should be used only for evaluation, not for any adjustment.

Sony AF9 is doing frame-per-frame analysis with HDR content and dynamically adjust the tone mapping, generally with WRGB you can't have 1000 nits displayed to your screen (about 600-800 nits are possible) and also because of WRGB design you have lower color gamut than from an RGB panel, as explained very detailed here, the WRGB OLEDs due to the introduction of the 'white' sub-pixel, it distorts the standard RGB color channel relationship - excessively at HDR brightness levels. (if you sum the Y of 100% Saturation with 100% Luminance color patch of R+G+B primaries you get 400nits while the same time if you display a 100% White patch you get 800nit...so your color gamut is limited to 400 nits... this means that WRGB OLED's can never be calibrated for HDR for the level of accuracy is possible with SDR calibration.

Sony is very smart by introducing that kind of calibration procedure, where you calibrate the SDR mode (where the panel is more stable over the time than in HDR mode where its very unstable), so while it saves a lot of time (reduce calibration time required), you have calibrated at the end all modes based to that SDR calibration as baseline.
Many thanks for your very detailed answer on my questions and on the RBG color channel relationship in regards to the white sub-pixel! The link you provided with further details on the latter was a very interesting read
ConnecTEDDD likes this.
adsl-ryoga is offline  
post #250 of 251 Old 01-17-2019, 06:40 PM
Member
 
jonsie1083's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 1
A9F Calibration Question

Hello,

I recently had my 65'' A9F calibrated. Upon arrival I found out they had a 3 year old version of CalMan that was not compatible with the new Sony/Android AutoCal app. Additionally, they did not have a way to generate patterns to calibrate in HDR or Dolby Vision formats. They were only able to calibrate 1080P.

My question: am I correct in thinking that each source/format would need to be calibrated independently? The settings generated for 1080P content likely won't improve the HDR or Dolby Vision formats? Any feedback is greatly appreciated!

Last edited by jonsie1083; 01-17-2019 at 06:43 PM.
jonsie1083 is offline  
post #251 of 251 Old 01-18-2019, 06:50 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
chunon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati Ohio
Posts: 10,628
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3347 Post(s)
Liked: 3029
Sony Master Series A9F Calibration and Settings

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonsie1083 View Post
Hello,



I recently had my 65'' A9F calibrated. Upon arrival I found out they had a 3 year old version of CalMan that was not compatible with the new Sony/Android AutoCal app. Additionally, they did not have a way to generate patterns to calibrate in HDR or Dolby Vision formats. They were only able to calibrate 1080P.



My question: am I correct in thinking that each source/format would need to be calibrated independently? The settings generated for 1080P content likely won't improve the HDR or Dolby Vision formats? Any feedback is greatly appreciated!


The sdr settings map over for hdr so you should be good providing your calibration is good .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sony XBR 65A8F calibrated by Chad_B
LG 55B7A
DirectTV/ ATV4k/Panasonic UB820/Sony Z9F Soundbar

Last edited by chunon; 01-18-2019 at 11:12 AM.
chunon is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Display Calibration



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off