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post #1 of 13 Old 12-24-2018, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Does the i1 Display calibrate the light from the projector or the screen?

I think my screen gives off a slight bluish tint and was wondering if these devices calibrate the light coming off the screen, or just directly from the projector light? Thinking of buying one to play with, but only if it calibrates by screen.
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post #2 of 13 Old 12-24-2018, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by brandon_k_w View Post
I think my screen gives off a slight bluish tint and was wondering if these devices calibrate the light coming off the screen, or just directly from the projector light? Thinking of buying one to play with, but only if it calibrates by screen.
The common way is indeed to measure the light reflected off the screen. If you calibrate that to D65 it should eliminate the bluish tint, regardless of whether it's caused by the screen or by the projector itself.
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post #3 of 13 Old 12-30-2018, 11:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post

The common way is indeed to measure the light reflected off the screen. If you calibrate that to D65 it should eliminate the bluish tint, regardless of whether it's caused by the screen or by the projector itself.
I placed the colorimeter 6ft away so as not to cast a shadow on the screen, and angled slightly upwards to hit the center of the screen. This thing did a great job of removing the bluish tint, and there is more depth in the color too when comparing the i1 Profiler sample images.

The people in the images look more three dimensional, I wasnt expecting that. And the greyscale is more accurate... I had no idea my greyscale was off until I compared the before and afters.

Now I will have to learn HCFR that way I can adjust the colors directly on my projector and have color accuracy on all sources rather than just on my PC.

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post #4 of 13 Old 01-03-2019, 05:17 AM
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Originally Posted by brandon_k_w View Post
I placed the colorimeter 6ft away so as not to cast a shadow on the screen, and angled slightly upwards to hit the center of the screen. This thing did a great job of removing the bluish tint, and there is more depth in the color too when comparing the i1 Profiler sample images.

The people in the images look more three dimensional, I wasnt expecting that. And the greyscale is more accurate... I had no idea my greyscale was off until I compared the before and afters.

Now I will have to learn HCFR that way I can adjust the colors directly on my projector and have color accuracy on all sources rather than just on my PC.
Hi, i1Profiler is useful only if you are using your PC as a source, having a PC monitor or a TV or a projector to view content.

i1Profiler can direct connect with your PC Monitor RGB Balance controls (when this is possible, or asks you to do this manually and guides you what adjustment you need to take to do an initial White Calibration (usually monitors have 1-point of RGB balance controls for that). (It can't connect to do this with TV's or Projectors)

Later it will start automatic measurements to auto-adjust the Grayscale/Gamma by adjusting the output of the video signal that it goes to the connected display (VCGT). It will measure some colors also and it will generate an ICC file. To fully take advantage of the ICC correction (Gamut Correction) you need an application that can read ICC correction, software like PhotoShop (only from inside PhotoShop preview window you will be able to see Gamut Colors Correction.)

To your windows or other applications that is not supporting ICC, it will correct the VCGT (Video Card Gamma Table) only, this means RGB Balance (Grayscale) and Gamma, your Gamut is not corrected by VCGT.

When you have a display/projector and you want to calibrate for playback from a stand-alone player, you will calibrate using manual adjustments of your display/projector available calibration controls, so initially you will need to start by setting Sharpness/Contrast/Brightness and then move to measurements with calibration software and you meter.

You will start using the Movie Mode (which is the best performing mode from all the other movies that each TV/Projector is coming), disable enhancements, and measure the Warm 1/2 with Grayscale patterns to see which has better RGB Balance and it's closer to D65 (The White Point that REC.709 colorspace is using).

After that measure the available Gamma Options (0,-1,-2,-3) to see which one is closer to your target gamma, recheck again contrast/brightness and then move to Grayscale calibration.

If you display/projector has 2-Point and 10/20 Point RGB Balance, then start with 2-Point and use 100% White patch to calibrate using the RGB-Gains (RGB-High) controls and then with 30% with RGB Cuts (RGB-Low) controls, recheck always both and contrast/brightness again, after that move to 10/20-Point RGB balance for further adjustments.

After the end of Grayscale calibration you will move to Color Gamut adjustments (if you display has that kind of controls, for Full CMS adjustments).

There free calibration software solutions, you can download:

1) HCFR from here with support forum topic: HCFR - Open source projector and display calibration software

2) The Free DPS version of LightSpace CMS can be used also with an i1Display PRO meter, there available to read various guides on the Light Illusion website.

The specific guide for use with LightSpace DPS is here.

But there is a lot of potentially useful/interesting info in the various guides on the website also.

Support forum topic: Free LightSpace DPS - Manual Display Calibration

For improve your calibration knowledge, here are some useful links generally for calibration:

http://www.tlvexp.ca/

Video Calibration From The Inside - Volume I - 2nd Edition-1

http://chromapure.com/demos.asp

http://chromapure.com/ChromaPureManual.pdf

http://www.spectracal.com/downloads/...n%20How-To.pdf

http://calman.spectracal.com/user-guides.html

http://calman.spectracal.com/webinars.html

http://www.youtube.com/user/SpectraCal

http://lightillusion.com/why_calibrate.html

http://lightillusion.com/delta-e.html

http://lightillusion.com/manual_cali...ots_guide.html

About the patch generation, there disk/media files solutions, just find one that is bit-perfect for the calibration software you will use. Ideally to playback these patterns from the device you will use for movie playback (to have your full video chain calibrated). You will need patterns designed/encoded for SDR.

There software patch generation or hardware controlled by software generators via applications (FireStick/TV, ChromeCast, AppleTV, mobile phones etc.), its fine to use them (to save some time from manually displaying 10/20-Point grayscale and 6 patterns for CMS, which is not super time-saving from performing this manually since its more accurate) but you need to test if the measurements you have from these solutions is matching the measurements you have from your actual playback source you will use for patch generation.

You can see some deviation example here: http://01900888.com/forum/139-di...l#post56253694

There is a complete thread with comparison of low cost solutions and their errors there: http://01900888.com/forum/139-d...cy-thread.html

Using untested software patch generation solutions, while it can save some time and be easier from the user as procedure, its like having a calibrated display in 'virtual world'). The most of the users have skipped to verify if their patterns are accurate and they are happy from their results looking good looking charts with low dE numbers.

I have posted more details about what to look and about how to test here: http://01900888.com/forum/139-di...l#post56121138

The ideal meter placement is when the meter is matching the same angle you have from your sitting position eye's height towards to the center of the screen.

You can use a mobile phone or a digital angle meter to find the angle. Imagine a virtual line (you can use a laser pointer) from your eye's @ sitting position aiming the center of the screen, the meter ideally has to placed the that line height and angle.

About the meter distance, its related with what meter you are using and how narrow optics it has, if you use Window patterns you need to find out the meter's FOV (field of view) from the distance you will place the meter.. because we don't need the meter to see larger area from the pattern area. (not see the meter shadow if you place it very close to the screen)

See that PDF about meters FOV (your meter has the same FOV as C6/i1DisplayPRO): SpectraCAL - Why Viewing Angle is Important

To take measurement from seating position you need a meter with a very narrow FOV (for example JETI which has 1.8 degree).

Here you can see how it's performed a projector calibration in post production, from siting position and eye level height:



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Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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post #5 of 13 Old 01-03-2019, 11:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
2) The Free DPS version of LightSpace CMS can be used also with an i1Display PRO meter, there available to read various guides on the Light Illusion website.

The specific guide for use with LightSpace DPS is here.
THANK YOU. Are you able to send me the .dll file for me to use LightSpace DPS, as I have the retail version of the i1 Display Pro. I like the guide you linked since it easily describes the steps to do with my specific meter.

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post #6 of 13 Old 01-03-2019, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by brandon_k_w View Post
THANK YOU. Are you able to send me the .dll file for me to use LightSpace DPS, as I have the retail version of the i1 Display Pro.

Hi, I have just send you the instructions.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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post #7 of 13 Old 01-03-2019, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, i1Profiler is useful only if you are using your PC as a source, having a PC monitor or a TV or a projector to view content.

i1Profiler can direct connect with your PC Monitor RGB Balance controls (when this is possible, or asks you to do this manually and guides you what adjustment you need to take to do an initial White Calibration (usually monitors have 1-point of RGB balance controls for that). (It can't connect to do this with TV's or Projectors)

If you don't mind me jumping in, I have a question about this. So, if I understand you correctly, if you select Projector as your device, then the software doesn't give you the option to manually tune-in your white point with the RGB settings on the projector. That appears accurate as far as I can tell, but if you select Display instead of Projector as your device there is an option on the drop-down menu for Projector (as seen below):








From there, the user can get to the measurement page and see that the option to manually dial in RGB is available:





If you attempt to do so, you get the monitor setup for the colorimeter rather than the projector one, but it does allow you to continue to tune in brightness, contrast and RGB on the device itself. Is this not recommended? I'm assuming not, but I just wanted to be certain.

Source: Windows 10 Pro, i5-4690K CPU @ 3.50GHz, 16 GB RAM, GTX 1070
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post #8 of 13 Old 01-04-2019, 01:41 AM
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If you don't mind me jumping in, I have a question about this. So, if I understand you correctly, if you select Projector as your device, then the software doesn't give you the option to manually tune-in your white point with the RGB settings on the projector. That appears accurate as far as I can tell, but if you select Display instead of Projector as your device there is an option on the drop-down menu for Projector (as seen below):

From there, the user can get to the measurement page and see that the option to manually dial in RGB is available:

If you attempt to do so, you get the monitor setup for the colorimeter rather than the projector one, but it does allow you to continue to tune in brightness, contrast and RGB on the device itself. Is this not recommended? I'm assuming not, but I just wanted to be certain.
i1Profiler will able to control your RGB balance only when you will connect a supported device where it has DDC. This is rare to happen with projector, usually its available with displays. Usually PC monitor have 1p-RGB balance while projectors can have 2/10p-Point RGB balance.

Its better idea to completely ignore that software and use HCFR or LightSpace DPS using your projector controls.
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Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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post #9 of 13 Old 01-04-2019, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
i1Profiler will able to control your RGB balance only when you will connect a supported device where it has DDC. This is rare to happen with projector, usually its available with displays. Usually PC monitor have 1p-RGB balance while projectors can have 2/10p-Point RGB balance.

Its better idea to completely ignore that software and use HCFR or LightSpace DPS using your projector controls.
I see, thanks so much! I guess I'll be looking into this LightSpace DPS software then.

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post #10 of 13 Old 01-05-2019, 12:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
About the meter distance, its related with what meter you are using and how narrow optics it has, if you use Window patterns you need to find out the meter's FOV (field of view) from the distance you will place the meter.. because we don't need the meter to see larger area from the pattern area. (not see the meter shadow if you place it very close to the screen)
When displaying color patterns for calibration of my projector, do the color patterns have to fill my entire screen, or just enough for the colorimeter's optic viewing angle? I am not able to see the dynamic readings from LightSpace when I have the test patterns at full screen. But I am also worried not having the test patterns in full screen will give inaccurate color readings. I am calibrating for my HTPC as that is my source for everything, I do not own separate bluray players.

Last edited by brandon_k_w; 01-05-2019 at 01:00 AM.
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post #11 of 13 Old 01-05-2019, 02:38 AM
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Originally Posted by brandon_k_w View Post
When displaying color patterns for calibration of my projector, do the color patterns have to fill my entire screen, or just enough for the colorimeter's optic viewing angle? I am not able to see the dynamic readings from LightSpace when I have the test patterns at full screen. But I am also worried not having the test patterns in full screen will give inaccurate color readings. I am calibrating for my HTPC as that is my source for everything, I do not own separate bluray players.
When you don't have dedicated room with black velvet cloth to walls or other non-reflective material, it will not help if you display full field patterns, its better idea to use 10-18% windows.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
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post #12 of 13 Old 01-05-2019, 07:09 AM
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When you don't have dedicated room with black velvet cloth to walls or other non-reflective material, it will not help if you display full field patterns, its better idea to use 10-18% windows.
What are the advantages of full field patterns in a dedicated room?
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post #13 of 13 Old 01-05-2019, 07:17 AM
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What are the advantages of full field patterns in a dedicated room?
There no advantage, just the light will be absorbed from a dedicated room cloth treatment and will not reflected back to the screen.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
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