Forum Jump: 
 5Likes
  • 2 Post By ConnecTEDDD
  • 1 Post By Rolls-Royce
  • 1 Post By ConnecTEDDD
  • 1 Post By PhantomCage
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 8 Old 01-04-2019, 04:14 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
PhantomCage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Primary colors pattern question

Hello, I used the primary colors pattern from the AVS HD709 disc to setup my TV. There is a clear difference between grey and red under a red filter on uncalibrated TV settings, same with green so I increased chroma? I believe, until they matched. Is this the correct way to proceed? I left saturation at standard 50.

My expert settings look something like this now

Red 6
Tint 0

Green 6
Tint -6

Blue 0
Tint 0

Yellow 4
Tint -2

Cyan 4
Tint 0

Magenta 5
Tint -5
PhantomCage is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 8 Old 01-04-2019, 08:36 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 7,387
Mentioned: 154 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2690 Post(s)
Liked: 3270
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhantomCage View Post
Hello, I used the primary colors pattern from the AVS HD709 disc to setup my TV. There is a clear difference between grey and red under a red filter on uncalibrated TV settings, same with green so I increased chroma? I believe, until they matched. Is this the correct way to proceed? I left saturation at standard 50.

My expert settings look something like this now

Red 6
Tint 0

Green 6
Tint -6

Blue 0
Tint 0

Yellow 4
Tint -2

Cyan 4
Tint 0

Magenta 5
Tint -5
Hi, I wanted to inform you that you are loosing a lot of time using any filter, its really a waste of time, CMS Calibration is not possible by only looking build in filters or by any type of $1 filter that is coming with disks or by photographic use quality and more expensive ones (Rosco E-Colour Tokyo Blue #071 or Lee Sheet Colour Filter #071 Tokyo or Kodak Deep Blue Tricolor #47B).

Blue Filter Glasses are useless for displays other than CRT.

Blue filters used before 10-15 years mainly for CRT Displays where only Color/Tint controls were available for CMS; the calibration software/meter access were so limited and so expensive.....now in 2017 you can get an amazing for the performance colorimeter like X-Rite's i1Display PRO and by using an open source software for free (like HCFR or LightSpace DPS), there is no reason to use any blue filter anymore.

Now most of the displays are coming with 6-Axis CMS controls.

Blue filters (on CRT) can work where for example the Red Primary is fully saturated and have no blue or green...blue primary has no green or red etc....But a fully saturated Primary needs to have the other 2 primaries added to be able to de-saturated it to it's target....so viewing thru the blue filter you will have light coming from all three primaries and this will make it's blue filter purpose of matching the luminance method no longer work.

When you have meter/software and have performed a color gamut calibration will full CMS internal controls or via external way using a 3D LUT Box like eeColor, look throu the blue filter....you will see that it will look so bad; so a very wide native gamut coverage display it will look very off when you target for REC.709 and look throu bars because the more de-saturation will be needed to the colors to match REC.709. Blue filters designed to work for display that their primaries are tracking REC.709, now all modern displays have wider gamut coverage from REC.709, this is another one reason that Blue Filter is not worth it to use nowadays.

For CMS calibration you need software/meter, can't do it by looking any reference pattern or any special mode or any filter.

By using only a Calibration Disk you can't set your peak light output, perform RGB Balance of your grayscale, calibrate your Primary/Secondary Colors (Hue/Saturation/Lightness), fix your gamma levels etc. for REC.709, to do all these you will need meter/software.

If you don't have plans to invest for a X-Rite i1Display PRO colorimeter, use the ISF-Night/Movie or Cinema mode, disable any enhancement, display a grayscale ramp and swap between the available color temp options until you select the one that looks more neutral to your eyes and then check/adjust Contrast/Brightness/Sharpness Color Clipping etc.

I have posted what you can do with a calibration disk (or any kind of calibration disk, don't specifically for Ted's) here: What is the best calibration disc???
GeorgeAB and PhantomCage like this.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is online now  
post #3 of 8 Old 01-06-2019, 08:16 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
PhantomCage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Thanks for the detailed explanation, I guess I'll look into the other settings that can be setup with a disc and leave the rest as default.
PhantomCage is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 8 Old 01-06-2019, 10:14 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Rolls-Royce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Victorville, CA
Posts: 3,631
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 853 Post(s)
Liked: 981
If your set has a "Blue-Only" mode (many don't), you can use it and a color bar pattern to set the normal Color and Tint controls by eye, but not the other controls you described. As Ted already mentioned, the meter and software are the most accurate and your best bet, but a blue-only mode and color bars will get you as close as you can by eye alone.
PhantomCage likes this.

...Royce...

"I never drink...wine."
Bela Lugosi, DRACULA, 1931
Rolls-Royce is offline  
post #5 of 8 Old 01-08-2019, 03:22 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
PhantomCage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 1
It does have a blue only mode, I'll set it up according to the patterns in that case, probably better than default I guess. I'll leave the other controls alone.
PhantomCage is offline  
post #6 of 8 Old 01-08-2019, 04:03 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 7,387
Mentioned: 154 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2690 Post(s)
Liked: 3270
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhantomCage View Post
It does have a blue only mode, I'll set it up according to the patterns in that case, probably better than default I guess. I'll leave the other controls alone.
Most of the TV's have such 'waste-of-time' features, better to leave at default the CMS settings unless you have a colorimeter/calibration software to see what is happening.
PhantomCage likes this.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is online now  
post #7 of 8 Old 01-08-2019, 06:39 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
PhantomCage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 1
I think it won't matter much either way since the difference under the filter requires minimal magenta/cyan adjustment so I'll just compare a profile adjusted and one at default and see which one looks better but I think there's barely a difference so might as well leave it on default. Thank you all for your advice.
ConnecTEDDD likes this.
PhantomCage is offline  
post #8 of 8 Old 01-14-2019, 03:14 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 7,387
Mentioned: 154 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2690 Post(s)
Liked: 3270
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhantomCage View Post
I think it won't matter much either way since the difference under the filter requires minimal magenta/cyan adjustment so I'll just compare a profile adjusted and one at default and see which one looks better but I think there's barely a difference so might as well leave it on default. Thank you all for your advice.
Since you are interesting to improve your color accurancy, it will worth if you will get your own colorimeter (X-Rite i1Display PRO is a great choice) and start using a free calibration software (HCFR or LightSpace DPS) to improve your grayscale (RGB balance/gamma tracking) and then your Color gamut (CMS), after some practicing to see how stuff works you will have some good results.

See there for some instructions: http://01900888.com/forum/139-d...l#post57368096

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Display Calibration



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off