Forum Jump: 
 245Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 687 Old 09-03-2014, 02:51 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lukeamdman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Burnsville, MN
Posts: 3,777
Mentioned: 187 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1380 Post(s)
Liked: 1963
SEOS-24, BMS 4594ND, Dual AE TD18H+

There are similar builds by Chop and erwinfrombelgium, but this one will use different mid-bass drivers. I plan on using the same 450hz XO and the MTM arrangement.

The AE drivers (8ohm with black phase plug, non-apollo) have already been purchased, and I've heard the lead time from AE can be a little while, but I’m in no rush. I need to sell my current mains before I have the cash to purchase the BMS drivers anyway.

Since I already have a miniDSP 10x10 and enough amps, this will be all active, with the exception of the 6,300hz crossover for the HF driver in the BMS coax.

The 18s will be ported with a slot port, with a tune somewhere from 35-40hz. They obviously won’t be completely full range, but most of the time they’ll be crossed at 80hz anyway. However, with a ~35hz tune, they should do fairly well for most music without subs. WinISD simulations seem to show that anything over 5 cu.ft per 18 isn't beneficial, so I’m leaning towards that number for box volume for each 18.

Similar to Chop’s build, it will be modular, but with this one, even the SEOS will have its own box completely separate from the 18s. Since Baltic birch isn’t cheap, and this build will be modular without weight concerns, I’ll be using MDF with plenty of bracing and doubled up baffles.


EDIT:


Final cabinet tune ended up being 25hz. Crossover point is 450hz.

Final outside dimensions of the boxes:

Width: 25"
Height: 29.5" (tops and bottoms are doubled up on MDF (1.5" thick))
Depth: 29.25" (front baffle is 1.5" thick)

Ports: (2) 11.375" wide, by 1.5" tall, by 8.5" deep ports per box (depth includes 1.5" baffle).
































Last edited by lukeamdman; 04-01-2018 at 03:12 PM.
lukeamdman is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 687 Old 09-03-2014, 03:31 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
gpmbc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,936
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 343 Post(s)
Liked: 224
Nice Luke, so dual 18s per speaker?
gpmbc is online now  
post #3 of 687 Old 09-03-2014, 03:35 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lukeamdman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Burnsville, MN
Posts: 3,777
Mentioned: 187 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1380 Post(s)
Liked: 1963
lukeamdman is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 687 Old 09-03-2014, 04:00 PM
Senior Member
 
awedio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 203
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 26
When did you order & receive your AE drivers?

John is currently quoting 6 - 8 weeks lead time
awedio is offline  
post #5 of 687 Old 09-03-2014, 04:02 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lukeamdman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Burnsville, MN
Posts: 3,777
Mentioned: 187 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1380 Post(s)
Liked: 1963
Quote:
Originally Posted by awedio View Post
When did you order & receive your AE drivers?

John is currently quoting 6 - 8 weeks lead time
I just purchased them today. 8 weeks is fine, no rush.
lukeamdman is offline  
post #6 of 687 Old 09-03-2014, 04:05 PM
Senior Member
 
awedio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 203
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Ok.

Did you consider getting the Apollo option, even though these are mid-bass drivers ?

Wooow, 18 inch for mid-bass, f%^&ing crazies on these forum's
awedio is offline  
post #7 of 687 Old 09-03-2014, 04:07 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lukeamdman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Burnsville, MN
Posts: 3,777
Mentioned: 187 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1380 Post(s)
Liked: 1963
Quote:
Originally Posted by awedio View Post
Ok.

Did you consider getting the Apollo option, even though these are mid-bass drivers ?

Wooow, 18 inch for mid-bass, f%^&ing crazies on these forum's
I did, but at an extra $150 per driver....yikes.
lukeamdman is offline  
post #8 of 687 Old 09-03-2014, 04:10 PM
Senior Member
 
awedio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 203
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Yep, I hear you.

You ordered 6 AE18's?
awedio is offline  
post #9 of 687 Old 09-03-2014, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lukeamdman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Burnsville, MN
Posts: 3,777
Mentioned: 187 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1380 Post(s)
Liked: 1963
Quote:
Originally Posted by awedio View Post
Yep, I hear you.

You ordered 6 AE18's?
I'm running a phantom center, so only 4.
lukeamdman is offline  
post #10 of 687 Old 09-03-2014, 04:14 PM
Senior Member
 
awedio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 203
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Even with only 4, that's is still a lot of cone area
awedio is offline  
post #11 of 687 Old 09-03-2014, 04:36 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tuxedocivic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ladysmith, BC
Posts: 7,983
Mentioned: 218 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2296 Post(s)
Liked: 2206
Great to see this happening Luke! Will be following along.

Be sure to try different XO points. Just cause 450 worked for chop doesn't mean its optimal for you. What is your ceiling height?
tuxedocivic is offline  
post #12 of 687 Old 09-03-2014, 04:42 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lukeamdman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Burnsville, MN
Posts: 3,777
Mentioned: 187 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1380 Post(s)
Liked: 1963
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
Great to see this happening Luke! Will be following along.

Be sure to try different XO points. Just cause 450 worked for chop doesn't mean its optimal for you. What is your ceiling height?
The soffits the speakers will be under are only 7ft.

If the crossover point has to be somewhere between 450-600hz that's fine with me. I guess I won't know for sure until I take measurements.
lukeamdman is offline  
post #13 of 687 Old 09-03-2014, 07:00 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tuxedocivic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ladysmith, BC
Posts: 7,983
Mentioned: 218 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2296 Post(s)
Liked: 2206
Is it 7ft at the ceiling reflection?

I'm betting a little higher XO would be beneficial for you here. Better vertical directivity match to the SEOS 24 (I'd have to look more closely at the numbers though, this is off the top of my head), and a little better power handling. Maybe 550hz with LR4 acoustic slopes. Possibly BW2 on the tweeter and LR4 on the woofer to get there. Set delay and you'll be grinning ear to ear.

Really happy to see this happen. Chop's build is great but this is how I would have done it if I were him.
tuxedocivic is offline  
post #14 of 687 Old 09-03-2014, 08:03 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
chrapladm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 4,738
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1082 Post(s)
Liked: 440
Another great build. Subscribed for sure.
chrapladm is online now  
post #15 of 687 Old 09-03-2014, 08:31 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
NWCgrad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Frederick, MD
Posts: 3,625
Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1283 Post(s)
Liked: 1328
This will be one he'll of a speaker. Nice selection of drivers.

______________________________________
Home Theater:
http://01900888.com/forum/15-gen...sement-ht.html
NWCgrad is offline  
post #16 of 687 Old 09-04-2014, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lukeamdman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Burnsville, MN
Posts: 3,777
Mentioned: 187 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1380 Post(s)
Liked: 1963
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
Is it 7ft at the ceiling reflection?

I'm betting a little higher XO would be beneficial for you here. Better vertical directivity match to the SEOS 24 (I'd have to look more closely at the numbers though, this is off the top of my head), and a little better power handling. Maybe 550hz with LR4 acoustic slopes. Possibly BW2 on the tweeter and LR4 on the woofer to get there. Set delay and you'll be grinning ear to ear.

Really happy to see this happen. Chop's build is great but this is how I would have done it if I were him.
Ceiling reflection will be around 7'8", but I've stuffed all the floor joists with insulation, and even when the ceiling is finished it's going to be either fabric or panels of 1.5" thick OC 705.
lukeamdman is offline  
post #17 of 687 Old 09-04-2014, 09:34 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tuxedocivic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ladysmith, BC
Posts: 7,983
Mentioned: 218 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2296 Post(s)
Liked: 2206
Nice ceiling

Then just the floor would be the concern.
tuxedocivic is offline  
post #18 of 687 Old 09-04-2014, 10:52 AM
Bass Enabler
 
Scott Simonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 21,499
Mentioned: 199 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5975 Post(s)
Liked: 5098
Now this is the build I want to see!
Scott Simonian is offline  
post #19 of 687 Old 09-04-2014, 11:52 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 23,780
Mentioned: 215 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10426 Post(s)
Liked: 8070
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeamdman View Post
There are similar builds by Chop and erwinfrombelgium, but this one will use different mid-bass drivers. I plan on using the same 450hz XO and the MTM arrangement.

The AE drivers (8ohm with black phase plug, non-apollo) have already been purchased, and I've heard the lead time from AE can be a little while, but I’m in no rush. I need to sell my current mains before I have the cash to purchase the BMS drivers anyway.

Since I already have a miniDSP 10x10 and enough amps, this will be all active, with the exception of the 6,300hz crossover for the HF driver in the BMS coax.

The 18s will be ported with a slot port, with a tune somewhere from 35-40hz. They obviously won’t be completely full range, but most of the time they’ll be crossed at 80hz anyway. However, with a ~35hz tune, they should do fairly well for most music without subs. WinISD simulations seem to show that anything over 5 cu.ft per 18 isn't beneficial, so I’m leaning towards that number for box volume for each 18.

Similar to Chop’s build, it will be modular, but with this one, even the SEOS will have its own box completely separate from the 18s. Since Baltic birch isn’t cheap, and this build will be modular without weight concerns, I’ll be using MDF with plenty of bracing and doubled up baffles.
I am using a single TD18H with my mains. Running sealed 4.25 CF right now, but may go a little smaller. Was crossing at 80hz. Lowered to 40hz am am liking what I hear. Need to do some sweeps, but waiting until Face2 gets done with measurements before I start in with too much. TD18H's are really nice drivers. You can get all the mid-bass you want.

mjgarrett100@gmail.com

My Baffle wall LCR build: http://01900888.com/forum/155-di...-tpl-150h.html
Mike Garrett is online now  
post #20 of 687 Old 09-06-2014, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lukeamdman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Burnsville, MN
Posts: 3,777
Mentioned: 187 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1380 Post(s)
Liked: 1963
WinISD is barking at these parameters:



Anyone see the issue?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Capture.PNG
Views:	5314
Size:	19.6 KB
ID:	249698  
lukeamdman is offline  
post #21 of 687 Old 09-06-2014, 11:57 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mtg90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Millbrook, IL
Posts: 1,834
Mentioned: 531 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 687 Post(s)
Liked: 1403
Remove the data you entered into Qes, Qts, Vas, Fs and let it auto calculate those values.
mtg90 is offline  
post #22 of 687 Old 09-06-2014, 12:20 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lukeamdman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Burnsville, MN
Posts: 3,777
Mentioned: 187 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1380 Post(s)
Liked: 1963
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post
Remove the data you entered into Qes, Qts, Vas, Fs and let it auto calculate those values.
Bingo, thanks!

What's the rule of thumb for the first port resonance? If I'm going to be crossing this most likely around 550hz, how far above 550hz should that first resonance be?

In a simulation with a 7cu.ft box, 35hz tune, and a 23.5" x 2" slot port, it's showing around 747hz.

Is that too low?



Also, how does the port velocity look? This is with 600w.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Capture.PNG
Views:	5125
Size:	52.6 KB
ID:	249754  
lukeamdman is offline  
post #23 of 687 Old 09-06-2014, 06:04 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
chrapladm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 4,738
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1082 Post(s)
Liked: 440
Rule of thumb has been to stay one octave higher than your crossover. So for a 450hz XO I would shoot for a 900 1st port resonance. BUT this is not always possible while trying to keep ports from chuffing. My goals have made me chose what SPL I will actually be seeing and design for that. A lot of the times large woofers are hard to find a high port resonance and allow enough for air speed to keep in check.

BUT YMMV.
chrapladm is online now  
post #24 of 687 Old 09-06-2014, 06:16 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tuxedocivic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ladysmith, BC
Posts: 7,983
Mentioned: 218 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2296 Post(s)
Liked: 2206
I'd let the port velocity go up to allow for a high port resonance. Neither are very important to me personally. Also, model the port speed with a high pass on it and you'll find the port speed goes way down, allowing for smaller ports.
tuxedocivic is offline  
post #25 of 687 Old 09-06-2014, 06:24 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lukeamdman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Burnsville, MN
Posts: 3,777
Mentioned: 187 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1380 Post(s)
Liked: 1963
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
I'd let the port velocity go up to allow for a high port resonance. Neither are very important to me personally. Also, model the port speed with a high pass on it and you'll find the port speed goes way down, allowing for smaller ports.
That picture is with a BW3 28hz HPF...

You should have seen it before the filter!
lukeamdman is offline  
post #26 of 687 Old 09-06-2014, 08:50 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tuxedocivic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ladysmith, BC
Posts: 7,983
Mentioned: 218 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2296 Post(s)
Liked: 2206
Ok good. Won't you cross to subs around 40hz though? Maybe even higher.
tuxedocivic is offline  
post #27 of 687 Old 09-06-2014, 08:51 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lukeamdman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Burnsville, MN
Posts: 3,777
Mentioned: 187 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1380 Post(s)
Liked: 1963
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
Ok good. Won't you cross to subs around 40hz though? Maybe even higher.
Yep. 90% of the time they'll be crossed at 80hz and run with the subs.
lukeamdman is offline  
post #28 of 687 Old 09-06-2014, 09:06 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lukeamdman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Burnsville, MN
Posts: 3,777
Mentioned: 187 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1380 Post(s)
Liked: 1963
If I shrink the port from 23.5" x 2" to 23.5" x 1.5", it raises the first port resonance from ~750hz to ~1,100hz. That will have to do.

The box at 7cu.ft is larger than I'd like, but making it any smaller requires the port to be even smaller in order to bring the resonance down, which makes the port velocity go way up. I think what I have planned above is a good balance of everything, unless one of the gurus on here see something I don't!



Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Capture.PNG
Views:	5112
Size:	59.6 KB
ID:	250370  
lukeamdman is offline  
post #29 of 687 Old 09-07-2014, 02:25 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,096
Mentioned: 771 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2868 Post(s)
Liked: 3522
fwiw, the ports on this one appear to be about 28 sq inches cross sectional area, each. two drivers, two ports. they are real 20hz full rangers, so you might be able to go a little less port than that per driver since you won't be tuned quite as low.


http://www.genelec.com/products/1036a/

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is online now  
post #30 of 687 Old 09-07-2014, 08:54 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lukeamdman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Burnsville, MN
Posts: 3,777
Mentioned: 187 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1380 Post(s)
Liked: 1963
Since the box for the SEOS will be 25" wide, here's what I'm planning for each 18:

25" wide, 28" tall, and 21.5" deep. That should be about 7.2cu.ft before the bracing, port, and the driver.

Port will be 22.75" wide (after a .75" brace down the center), 1.5" tall, and 6" deep.
Scott Simonian likes this.
lukeamdman is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off