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post #1 of 47 Old 11-03-2017, 09:30 AM - Thread Starter
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4 SI-HT18 LLTs Build

I'll document the build here - quick question, what is the preferred adhesive used for holding MDF together? My existing subs are sonotubes, so I never had to research this much, I just used wood glue for laminating the MDF endcap layers.

Is wood glue acceptable for building a box with MDF, or is there something better?

I don't want this project to drag on, so I may use adhesive plus small screws, then just cover the screw heads later.
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post #2 of 47 Old 11-03-2017, 09:36 AM
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If you look at my build link in my sig, I used a forstner bit to make holes for the screws, then pre drilled for the screws. Makes a nice easy hole to fill later and let me build each cab in approx. 6 hours start to finish.
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Link to Stereo Integrity SI HT 18 sub build......http://01900888.com/forum/155-di...-pedestal.html
Speakers and subs for sale...http://01900888.com/forum/209-au...kers-subs.html
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post #3 of 47 Old 11-03-2017, 02:50 PM
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As someone currently building LLTs using HT18s, I'm very interested in this build. What's your plan? Volume, tuning, power, etc?

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Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
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post #4 of 47 Old 11-03-2017, 03:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Mine are the V1 models.

20 cubes each, 8" diameter port, 13hz tune, approximately 700 watts each. They could utilize more power in terms of travel, but these 4 subs will be in addition to my existing two Avalanche 18 LLTs, so all 6 subs will be coasting on just a few dozen watts each. I'll be using a Behringer inuke 6000x4 to feed the four SI-HT18s.

If you haven't started, I'd advise you to build sonosubs - the MDF for these size subs is going to make these thing ridiculously heavy.
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post #5 of 47 Old 11-03-2017, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
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Mine are the V1 models.

20 cubes each, 8" diameter port, 13hz tune, approximately 700 watts each. They could utilize more power in terms of travel, but these 4 subs will be in addition to my existing two Avalanche 18 LLTs, so all 6 subs will be coasting on just a few dozen watts each. I'll be using a Behringer inuke 6000x4 to feed the four SI-HT18s.

If you haven't started, I'd advise you to build sonosubs - the MDF for these size subs is going to make these thing ridiculously heavy.
I'm building 12' high 30+cf LLT sonosubs at 11.5Hz tune. Thanks for your LLT Explained write-up.
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Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) Remux BassEQ Tutorial BassEQ Demo Clips
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Custom Volt-6 Center, Volt-6 Surrounds, Custom Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers, Crowson MAs x 4
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post #6 of 47 Old 11-03-2017, 06:35 PM - Thread Starter
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If I didn?t have to squeeze the subs underneath my screen, I would definitely just go with four more matching Sonosubs
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post #7 of 47 Old 11-03-2017, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post
Mine are the V1 models.

20 cubes each, 8" diameter port, 13hz tune, approximately 700 watts each. They could utilize more power in terms of travel, but these 4 subs will be in addition to my existing two Avalanche 18 LLTs, so all 6 subs will be coasting on just a few dozen watts each. I'll be using a Behringer inuke 6000x4 to feed the four SI-HT18s.

If you haven't started, I'd advise you to build sonosubs - the MDF for these size subs is going to make these thing ridiculously heavy.

For me as a carpenter, if I build anymore it will be from the birch plywood. I am not too keen on MDF, it is cheap and it does work, but it is sooo heavy and its MDF.

At 20 bucks more per sheet it will bump build costs, but the plywood is such a better material structural wise.....acoustically probably not as good.

Link to Stereo Integrity SI HT 18 sub build......http://01900888.com/forum/155-di...-pedestal.html
Speakers and subs for sale...http://01900888.com/forum/209-au...kers-subs.html
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post #8 of 47 Old 11-03-2017, 07:16 PM - Thread Starter
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I was originally going to do half-inch plywood enclosure using screws and caulk, then wood glue a half inch mdf outer shell, but it would have been far too many cuts with four subwoofers.

The density of mdf is what makes it so appealing for speakers.
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post #9 of 47 Old 11-03-2017, 07:26 PM
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Plywood is good for subs. Brace liberally. The resonance is above subwoofer range. For full range mdf is more inert but for subs plywood is lighter, tougher and, well tougher. Double baffle and brace the snot out of it.

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post #10 of 47 Old 11-06-2017, 01:46 AM
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birch is lighter than mdf as well. and you can stain it easily.
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post #11 of 47 Old 11-18-2017, 08:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Wood is all cut - ridiculously heavy lol.

If you want a LLT, stick with a sonosub, you?ll thank me.
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post #12 of 47 Old 11-18-2017, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post
Wood is all cut - ridiculously heavy lol.

If you want a LLT, stick with a sonosub, you?ll thank me.
Lovin those braces. Did you hand cut the design of them?
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post #13 of 47 Old 11-19-2017, 07:08 AM - Thread Starter
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No, after all the projects on the basement this year, i just want to be done, so i had everything cnc cut.
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post #14 of 47 Old 12-12-2017, 09:24 PM - Thread Starter
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So I got back from a 2 week vacation out of the country and decided to start on this project. Things were going fairly smooth on sub #1 until I realized the exterior holes for the ports were not cut in the correct place. With the port being supported by the braces inside the sub, the port flare if offset to one side of the exterior port hole a bit too much. Now I need to cut a couple odd shaped half arcs to go on the outside to cover up that hole.

That frustrated me quite a bit. It's very hard to put hours into building new subs when your theater is working just fine and you'd rather spend that free time watches movies. I sense that this project will drag on a long time lol.
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post #15 of 47 Old 12-29-2017, 05:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Turns out a few of the cuts from the cnc were off, costing me lots of time. The 2 LLTs for under the screen are done - they look big and mean. These took me about a day each, so I'm not looking forward to doing the other 2. The ports are 8" diameter flared out to 11" - the two subs for behind the screen will have 8" diameter ports that flare out to 13".

Tune should be between 12-13hz. The duct tape isn't holding the port flares in place, the plastic is reamed so that they slide inside/outside the tube and meet it flush at the seam - the duct tape is merely covering the exterior seam to make it air tight. I built a flare support at the interior end of each flare, screwed to it to help hold the weight.

These will get covered with black velvet to disappear beneath the screen.


These being my first box subs, my advice to a new builder would be:

1) build a sonosub instead
2) plan out ALL of your bracing ahead of time, drawn and measured, so you don't waste a ton of time winging it
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post #16 of 47 Old 12-30-2017, 11:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Just replaced the Behringer inuke 6000 stock fans with Noctua NF-R8 redux 1800s and WOW what a difference. For all intents and purposes, the amp is silent now. I hope these fans dont cause the amp to overheat somewhere down the road - air flow feels fine, just so much quiter.

No wire splicing required, the Noctuas came with long wires and the pin adapters. I?ll modify the Carvins tomorrow with more of these.
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post #17 of 47 Old 01-02-2018, 09:32 PM - Thread Starter
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New SI HT18 LLTs in place under the screen, wrapped in velvet. Existing Avalanche 18 LLTs moved to rear left nook of theater. Front false wall is all triple black velvet now, great contrast with images. Bass is immersive. Very pleased.
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post #18 of 47 Old 01-02-2018, 10:39 PM
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4 SI-HT18 LLTs Build

They look nice! Round ports add a degree of build difficulty over slots for sure, but I prefer round ports aesthetically. Seems like yesterday that you built the Sonosubs.
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post #19 of 47 Old 01-02-2018, 11:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks. I will always be biased towards round ports for the inherent flow advantages.

That first LLT was in 2005! When i get a chance, im going to post the evolution of my system in my theater thread - i have pics back with my wooden tv stand, 27? jvc tube tv, and htib right out of college.
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post #20 of 47 Old 01-02-2018, 11:45 PM
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post #21 of 47 Old 01-03-2018, 05:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks. Decided to order a 4th recliner to even out the seating as well.
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post #22 of 47 Old 01-04-2018, 06:32 AM - Thread Starter
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After an evening of recalibrating and EQing everything, and playing with both sets of subs, there is a noticeable tonal difference between the two when played separately. The Avalanche subs have a heavier, richer sound. The HT18s have a lighter, higher frequency sound when playing the same wide band bass test tone.

The different drivers, enclosure materials, enclosure sizes, driver orientations, and age of the drivers are all contributing im sure. The HT18s have been sitting in boxes for a few years and the suspensions arent loosened up at all, so the tone may change over time. When all four are played together, it sounds great, one set compliments the other. If i could only pick one set to use though, it would be the Avalanche sonosubs for sure.
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post #23 of 47 Old 12-31-2018, 08:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Had a little free time over the holidays, trying to knock out LLTs #5 and 6. 6 foot x 2 x 2.
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post #24 of 47 Old 12-31-2018, 10:02 AM
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Big fan of your LLT thread, eng399 built me one after I spent enough time learning about the llt.

Do you really run no hpf without issues?
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post #25 of 47 Old 12-31-2018, 10:13 AM
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I never ran any HPF on my LLTs and everything was fine. In a giant room I would be careful. The DTS-10s needed one but my LLTs did not, assuming 12 dB hot LFE above reference.

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post #26 of 47 Old 12-31-2018, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Correct, no hpf and never had any issues with a 13hz tune, whether it was one sub or multiples. I would watch movies at -15 with the single in an open concept living room, but if someone is listening at reference, that might be a different story. In that case i would say build more anyway.

I have 4 in the theater and listen at -12 now, and the subs are just coasting. With 6, id wager they will never see more than 50 watts each for the rest of their lives with even the most demanding material. So overexcursion is a moot point at any frequency.
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post #27 of 47 Old 12-31-2018, 10:41 AM
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For what it's worth, I just used plain 'ol Titebond 2. It works well and doesn't require a crazy amount of clamping force like construction adhesives do. The cleanup is a lot easier with Titebond, too, both dry and wet. As another plus... it's cheap and easy to find.

Your panels will have to be cut pretty straight with Titebond. If you do find any gaps, mix some Titebond with the mountain of MDF sawdust you'll have... easy filler.

You'll find the subject of glues to be polarizing. Take your pick - they'll both work just fine.
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post #28 of 47 Old 12-31-2018, 11:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks - i went with the PL Premium and really like it. It’s thick and tacky, good for filling any small gaps by itself.

I dont use clamps very much in my builds, i screw every piece with multiple coarse thread drywall screws in addition to the adhesive. It lets me move fast and the joints are much stronger than just the glue.
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post #29 of 47 Old 12-31-2018, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
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...and the joints are much stronger than just the glue.
I think you'll find that is open for debate, especially with MDF, as screws tear out so easily. The 'moving faster' part is undeniable, however.

Regardless, as long as care is given to make sure the box is sealed, I'm sure whatever method one uses is more than sufficient to hold the box together. It doesn't need to sustain a nuclear explosion.
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post #30 of 47 Old 12-31-2018, 01:18 PM
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PL premium is like concrete when it dries. Really strong. Lately I have been using brad nails with titebond in the grooves and then silicone on the inside for a cleaner look. That is for speakers though and may still use PL with subs.

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