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post #31 of 100 Old 01-20-2016, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post
The 1" sensor also needs larger optics to take advantage of it, which makes the camera bigger and heavier. Not everyone wants that. Plus, BOSS won't work with a heavier lens - not yet anyway.

You also won't get 60p at 4K in a package that small due to heating issues. You either need more room for a large heat sink or you need a fan and you won't get either in the AX-53 or AX-100 footprint. Heck, you can't even output to an external monitor while shooting in 4K with these devices.

You're not going to get what you want in that size with anything close to the price you want.
4Kp60 is more likely in a body like the AX53 than 1-inch sensor with a reasonable zoom lens. It is much harder to bend the rules of optics than to create a more powerful and less power-hungry chip.

I don't know why people ask for the AX53 with a 1-inch sensor when the AX100 is available.
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post #32 of 100 Old 01-20-2016, 05:02 PM
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I don't know why people ask for the AX53 with a 1-inch sensor when the AX100 is available.
I am not that fussed about the AX53 not having a 1" sensor, it would be nice, because i think that it is time for these camera manufacturers to drop these old 1/2.3" sensors and move on to something bigger, and yes i understand that these are compact type consumer camcoders so it may well be difficult to do so, but at least Sony have had the brains to update the old 1/2.3" sensor from the AX33 to this new 1/2.5" 16x9 sensor, which is a great move, one that Panasonic needs to do as well, as these 1/2.3" sensors have been around for years.

The cheapest video Camcorder that shoots 4k/50p or 60p is the Panasonic H-X1000 costing $3700, then the Sony AX1 for $4000, i have used both, and both shoot beautiful 4k video, but they have their limitations in low light, as you expect with those old and tiny sensors, but their 4k is @ 150Mbps, and stunning.

The next camera is the newer Panasonic DVX200 which is nearly $5000, however it has a M4/3 sensor, making it by far the best valued sub $10,000 professional Camcorders out there, as yet i cannot get my hands on one to try it, but based on everything i have seen, i would buy one if it suited my needs, unfortunately it is just too big for the kind of Run-n-Gun video work that i do.

Back to the AX100, yes it has a 1" sensor, but it is old, it has never been updated, and it doesn't do 4k/50p, and it has no BOSS stabilization, and this was my argument about there not being a smaller bodied Pro-Sumer grade camcorder that is around $2000 to $2500 that has a decent sensor and does do 4k/50p or 60p, and why does Sony release a new version of the AX33 with that new 1/2.5" 16x9 sensor, but they don't update the more expensive AX100 as well, it just seems strange to me, and to a lot of other people out there as well, all they have to do is add the BOSS stabilization, and i would be happy to buy it, even if it doesn't do 4k @ 50p/60p, i will just have to adjust my shooting style to compensate for the lower frame rate, because there is a massive difference between 25p and 50p when shooting in hand held, run-n-gun mode like i do.

When i say hand held mode, i refer to having my camera on one of my custom made rigs, on mounted on my Flycam HD3000 stabilizer, where i am walking around and filming car shows, or travel videos, so my camera is moving all the time, and even tho the Panasonic 5 axis stabilization has always been great in my current video cams (i have 2x Panasonic SDT-750 cams) the BOSS system just kills it, and yes i do sometimes use my tripod for static work, but not that often, i am primarily a run-n-gun shooter, and i really want that BOSS system, but i also need my camera to be as small as possible as well, hence why the AX53 seems to be the right cam for me at the budget that i have.

Cheers

Edit: btw, i would much rather have 4k/50p video mode with the new 1/2.5" sensor than have a cam with a 1" sensor that only does 4k/25p, because i don't do a lot of night time video outdoors, and when i am indoors in low light i use 1 or 2 LED lights mounted on my Rig.

http://www.dropbox.com/sc/chznr5tcf..._CYF0QAALw2vTa

Last edited by glenpinn; 01-20-2016 at 05:12 PM.
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post #33 of 100 Old 01-20-2016, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by glenpinn View Post
I am not that fussed about the AX53 not having a 1" sensor, it would be nice, because i think that it is time for these camera manufacturers to drop these old 1/2.3" sensors and move on to something bigger, and yes i understand that these are compact type consumer camcoders so it may well be difficult to do so, but at least Sony have had the brains to update the old 1/2.3" sensor from the AX33 to this new 1/2.5" 16x9 sensor, which is a great move, one that Panasonic needs to do as well, as these 1/2.3" sensors have been around for years.
I am not sure why do you think that 1/2.5" is better than 1/2.3".
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The cheapest video Camcorder that shoots 4k/50p or 60p is the Panasonic H-X1000 costing $3700
It was on sale on Panasonic's website for $2600 several months ago.
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Originally Posted by glenpinn View Post
The next camera is the newer Panasonic DVX200 which is nearly $5000, however it has a M4/3 sensor, making it by far the best valued sub $10,000 professional Camcorders out there, as yet i cannot get my hands on one to try it, but based on everything i have seen, i would buy one if it suited my needs, unfortunately it is just too big for the kind of Run-n-Gun video work that i do.
Is it much larger than the DVX100? The DVX100 used to sell for $4800, so for the same price you get a much better camera: 4/3-inch sensor, good zoom range and 4Kp60.
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Originally Posted by glenpinn View Post
Back to the AX100, yes it has a 1" sensor, but it is old, it has never been updated, and it doesn't do 4k/50p, and it has no BOSS stabilization, and this was my argument about there not being a smaller bodied Pro-Sumer grade camcorder that is around $2000 to $2500 that has a decent sensor and does do 4k/50p or 60p, and why does Sony release a new version of the AX33 with that new 1/2.5" 16x9 sensor, but they don't update the more expensive AX100 as well, it just seems strange to me, and to a lot of other people out there as well
Do you want to "upgrade" a 1-inch sensor with a 1/2.5-inch sensor?
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Originally Posted by glenpinn View Post
all they have to do is add the BOSS stabilization, and i would be happy to buy it, even if it doesn't do 4k @ 50p/60p
Putting the whole 1-inch assembly on a gyro is not an easy feat. It is heavy and the barrel will be as thick as a bazooka. For example, the 2015 Sony PJ670 has a single 1/5.8-inch sensor in a BOSS assembly. The 2010 Panasonic HDC-SD600 has three 1/4.1-inch sensors. These cameras are the same size and have the same size thread. The PJ670 produces properly crappy video despite $700 price tag, 50 Mbit/s bitrate and BOSS.
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post #34 of 100 Old 01-20-2016, 07:24 PM
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Underlying sensor technologies aside, I have a feeling the A53 will do well based only on the specs and that single Sony-made video sample on YouTube.

When designing a camcorder this compact, with this long zoom range and with a gyro-stabilizing housing unit inside the camcorder's body every 0.1 of an inch in the fraction counts. Also counts is how the camcorder can actually make use of the quoted surface area and pixel count on the sensor. The 1" sensor in the AX100 is not really 1" in terms of effective area used for video. It's roughly a 14M-pixel, 16x9 crop off the total roughly 20M-pixel, 4x3 sensor. The 1" quote is for the whole 4x3 surface of the sensor.
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post #35 of 100 Old 01-20-2016, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post
I am not sure why do you think that 1/2.5" is better than 1/2.3"
Just do some research, you will understand what i mean.

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Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post
It was on sale on Panasonic's website for $2600 several months ago.
Yes that is US$$$$$$$ i live in Australia, it was at $3200, now its gone back up, and it is not suitable for my run-n-gun style roaming video, and its getting a bit old.

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Is it much larger than the DVX100? The DVX100 used to sell for $4800, so for the same price you get a much better camera: 4/3-inch sensor, good zoom range and 4Kp60.
You cannot begin to compare the old DVX100 to the DVX200, and why would anyone want a 100 now anyway.

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Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post
Do you want to "upgrade" a 1-inch sensor with a 1/2.5-inch sensor?
No, where did i suggest this, given the size of the AX53, i would be happy to buy given the new sensor, even tho it doesn't do 4k @ 50p, but the AX100 is different, keep the 1" sensor, but add BOSS and 4k@50p then it would be a killer camera for around $2000 to $2500

Quote:
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Putting the whole 1-inch assembly on a gyro is not an easy feat. It is heavy and the barrel will be as thick as a bazooka. For example, the 2015 Sony PJ670 has a single 1/5.8-inch sensor in a BOSS assembly. The 2010 Panasonic HDC-SD600 has three 1/4.1-inch sensors. These cameras are the same size and have the same size thread. The PJ670 produces properly crappy video despite $700 price tag, 50 Mbit/s bitrate and BOSS.
My current Cams are 2x Panasonic SDT-750's and they have the 1/4.1" 3MOS (triple) sensor and it kills in 1080/50p video mode, and i still wish they made cams with the tripple sensors, especially like the old 3CCD sensors.
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post #36 of 100 Old 01-21-2016, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by glenpinn View Post
My current Cams are 2x Panasonic SDT-750's and they have the 1/4.1" 3MOS (triple) sensor and it kills in 1080/50p video mode, and i still wish they made cams with the tripple sensors, especially like the old 3CCD sensors.
They do. But you will need a gyro from a ballistic missile to control the sensor-lens unit with three 1-inch sensors and, say, 10x zoom.
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post #37 of 100 Old 01-21-2016, 10:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by glenpinn View Post
Back to the AX100, yes it has a 1" sensor, but it is old, it has never been updated, and it doesn't do 4k/50p, and it has no BOSS stabilization, and this was my argument about there not being a smaller bodied Pro-Sumer grade camcorder that is around $2000 to $2500 that has a decent sensor and does do 4k/50p or 60p, and why does Sony release a new version of the AX33 with that new 1/2.5" 16x9 sensor, but they don't update the more expensive AX100 as well, it just seems strange to me, and to a lot of other people out there as well, all they have to do is add the BOSS stabilization, and i would be happy to buy it, even if it doesn't do 4k @ 50p/60p, i will just have to adjust my shooting style to compensate for the lower frame rate, because there is a massive difference between 25p and 50p when shooting in hand held, run-n-gun mode like i do.
The reasons it's not updated yet could be because they are working on a new chip design and/or adding the balanced optical stabilizer and need time to get it right. It might need to be a tad bigger unless they are trying to make it the same size which could be another reason it's not out yet.

One idea Sony could do is offer as much resolution as they can without issue. For example, 2.5K to 3K at 60 (or 50 in your case) frames a second.
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post #38 of 100 Old 01-21-2016, 04:45 PM
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The reasons it's not updated yet could be because they are working on a new chip design and/or adding the balanced optical stabilizer and need time to get it right. It might need to be a tad bigger unless they are trying to make it the same size which could be another reason it's not out yet.
One idea Sony could do is offer as much resolution as they can without issue. For example, 2.5K to 3K at 60 (or 50 in your case) frames a second.
Thanks Paulo, you may well be right, but i really need 50p video mode, if i accept 4k/25p in say the AX53 then i will need to drastically change the way i shoot my roaming video, and try to avoid too much panning, or at least slow it down by 50% on what i would normally do, and try to avoid filming street scenes where i am stationary and there are cars driving past the camera, which is fine if i use 50p, the cars are quite smooth, but in 25p the cars have jerkiness in them as they pass the camera, just as it will be when filming racing cars going past my camera while it is stationary, again 50p is just much better for this type of video, however if i actually film fast cars and i actually follow the cars as they go past me, i could get away with 25p.

Anyway, so far the AX53 should be worth waiting for, no point in buying the AX33 now.

Cheers
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post #39 of 100 Old 01-21-2016, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenpinn View Post
if i accept 4k/25p in say the AX53 then i will need to drastically change the way i shoot my roaming video, and try to avoid too much panning, or at least slow it down by 50% on what i would normally do, and try to avoid filming street scenes where i am stationary and there are cars driving past the camera, which is fine if i use 50p, the cars are quite smooth, but in 25p the cars have jerkiness in them as they pass the camera, just as it will be when filming racing cars going past my camera while it is stationary, again 50p is just much better for this type of video, however if i actually film fast cars and i actually follow the cars as they go past me, i could get away with 25p.
Do you mind sharing some of your videos?
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post #40 of 100 Old 03-09-2016, 11:26 AM
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Ok, B&H says they have stock on this but Best Buy does not have it yet? Does anybody have one yet in the US?

Matt
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post #41 of 100 Old 03-09-2016, 01:07 PM
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Ok, B&H says they have stock on this but Best Buy does not have it yet? Does anybody have one yet in the US?
Yes, I ordered mine yesterday, should be here by Friday

Thanks
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post #42 of 100 Old 03-09-2016, 01:21 PM
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Yes, I ordered mine yesterday, should be here by Friday

Thanks
Luidoly
I am interested to find out whether it allows to set several exposure settings independently and simultaneously, or it only offers priority modes like the AX33. B&H online rep did not have this info.
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post #43 of 100 Old 03-09-2016, 08:39 PM
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Sample videos showing apparent strengths and weaknesses of the new Sony AX53/55:
Excellent rolling shutter control
Not so great at true 4K resolution when compared to the AX100 but better than the AX33
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post #44 of 100 Old 03-10-2016, 04:34 PM
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Yes, I ordered mine yesterday, should be here by Friday

Thanks
Luidoly
I hope you post some samples!

Bill
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post #45 of 100 Old 03-10-2016, 11:00 PM
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I hope you post some samples!

Bill
I will as soon as I can, I may even try to do some comparison with the AX-33 before I sell it
Thanks
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post #46 of 100 Old 03-14-2016, 10:39 AM
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Did you get it yet? Not sure why Best Buy still doesn't have stock. And not just online either, nothing in the store this weekend.

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post #47 of 100 Old 03-14-2016, 03:25 PM
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Did you get it yet? Not sure why Best Buy still doesn't have stock. And not just online either, nothing in the store this weekend.
Yes, last Friday ordered from B&H as usual very fast service, just posted my initial testing this am right on this forum
Thanks

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post #48 of 100 Old 03-15-2016, 08:24 AM
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Yes, last Friday ordered from B&H as usual very fast service, just posted my initial testing this am right on this forum
Ok, isn't about fast service or not, its that B&H has them so far ahead of Best Buy. Weird.

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post #49 of 100 Old 03-15-2016, 05:26 PM
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No BOSS in 4K ?

From Sony UK website:

PRODUCT SPECIFICATIONS
Image Stabilization
STEADYSHOT
Balanced Optical SteadyShot™ with 5-axis Intelligent Active mode (3)

3. Not supported at XAVC S 4K.
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post #50 of 100 Old 03-15-2016, 08:08 PM
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From Sony UK website:

PRODUCT SPECIFICATIONS
Image Stabilization
STEADYSHOT
Balanced Optical SteadyShot™ with 5-axis Intelligent Active mode (3)

3. Not supported at XAVC S 4K.
You are totally mistaken the AX-53 has a full functioning BOSS system in 4K, what you don't realize is that INTELLIGENT steady shot IS AN ADDITIONAL stabilization feature that enhances for some jitter and movement that is only available on the HD side of the equation, but to be frank with you I have used both and I really don't see that much difference between the BOSS in 4K and the BOSS
with INTELLIGENT steady shot. The misconception that the BOSS system is not supported in 4K is totally erroneous. Sony has not made this issue very clear. they should, I have a video in the other thread in this Forum that shows it.

Thanks,
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post #51 of 100 Old 03-15-2016, 08:12 PM
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Ok, isn't about fast service or not, its that B&H has them so far ahead of Best Buy. Weird.
Same thing happened when I bought the AX-33, Best Buy did not have it for at least a month or two after it came out.
Thanks
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post #52 of 100 Old 03-16-2016, 02:17 AM
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Great, thanks Luidoly
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Great, thanks Luidoly
Your Welcome, Did you find the Movie in the other thread???
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post #54 of 100 Old 03-16-2016, 05:39 PM
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yes, I did, thanks. I tried to ask Jessops in the UK to make an exception and sell it before Monday, the release day, but they say don't have it yet. So, I'm going to Africa with HD, but this AX53 camcorder will be my next, fed up with waiting for AX100 replacement.
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post #55 of 100 Old 03-16-2016, 08:57 PM
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For all its apparent downsides, e.g a little lower resolution, no full manual control etc. the camera should otherwise be great for traveling in these days and ages. It's about half the size of the AX100, about 40% lighter and has better stabilization which is critical for casual handheld shooting. Besides it's US$700 cheaper. You could spend the difference on useful accessories like a variable ND, microphone, light etc.
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post #56 of 100 Old 03-17-2016, 08:01 AM
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Does anyone here know whether the manual ring's function can be changed so instead of presenting a menu of what you want it to control, it instantly switches to the next mode in line or a specific one?
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post #57 of 100 Old 03-17-2016, 10:43 AM
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Same thing happened when I bought the AX-33, Best Buy did not have it for at least a month or two after it came out.
Mine is shipping today. Much better than your previous experience.

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post #58 of 100 Old 03-17-2016, 12:10 PM
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UMR on HDR vs 4K: The benefit of greater saturation and luminance capability is...not very evident in all images unlike more pixels which can be seen in every scene.
Between 4K LCD and HD OLED I would choose the latter.
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post #59 of 100 Old 03-17-2016, 12:42 PM
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Between 4K LCD and HD OLED I would choose the latter.
Well, I've got a 160" screen, so I don't have much choice for decent HDR unless I want a laser projector. But the quote to me is more about the "shiny new thing" and how the big talking point is HDR is more important than 4K. Besides that that isn't true in every situation, the fact is early reviews are pointing to the unsurprising fact that some releases have a poor implementation of HDR.

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post #60 of 100 Old 04-14-2016, 09:42 AM
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Hello everyone

I have a Sony A6000 camera and now I am looking to buy a video camera that shoots in 4K to film at home with family or family event
I stayed 2 years waiting for a camera filming 4K 60p jusqau but now I can not find it on ONLY a professional that exceeds $ 2,000 I want your opinion what model you advised me
Sony AX100 or there are new models FDR-AX33 or FDR-AX53
what is the difference between 3 and what model and best recommeded
also between 25p or 30p or 50p or 60p is that there is a big difference in the finished image quality and fluidity or not
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