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post #1 of 100 Old 01-05-2016, 08:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Sony AX53

http://www.cnet.com/products/sony-handycam-fdr-ax53/

Press release: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...300199679.html
Quote:
The new FDR-AX53 4K Handycam® camcorder is equipped with a new 20x optical zoom ZEISS® lens as well as a high-sensitivity image sensor with pixel size approximately 1.6 times greater than in the current 4K Handycam model*1. The FDR-AX53 also features Balanced Optical SteadyShot™ technology, which suppresses blur during all shooting modes – from wide shots to close-ups – and enables crisp, high resolution image capture in 4K even when shooting from a distance. It is also fit with a new Fast Intelligent AF and a new microphone structure that records high stereo sound and faithfully captures the original audio. In every sense, from image clarity to audio quality, the FDR-AX53 is a sizable leap forward.
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post #2 of 100 Old 01-05-2016, 09:02 PM
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I hope Sony came to its senses and allows setting all exposure parameters manually and independently .
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post #3 of 100 Old 01-06-2016, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post
I hope Sony came to its senses and allows setting all exposure parameters manually and independently .
Unless the controls are behind the flip out screen, don't hold your breath.

The AX-100 has Iris, Gain and Frame Rate controls using hard buttons below the screen. The dial for controlling those manual settings that the AX100 has is not present on the AX53. The AX53 has the same Manual Focus button has near the ring control the AX100 has, indicating manual focusing abilities, but appears to be lacking the other manual hard controls. Without other photos, I can't tell if it has manual controls for Neutral Density, either, like the AX100 has.

Based on that evidence, I wouldn't count on it.

While it's possible they put the settings in the touch screen, even that's not optimal since it would be hard to make adjustments on the fly. It would be like using the zoom controls via the touch screen - in other words, it would work, but not well.

If those controls are important, the AX100 still seems to be the way to go. However, if shooting hand held is a priority, this is likely a better bet while still getting decent imagery. It should at least produce better low light images than the AX33, for about the same price retail.

Last edited by NetworkTV; 01-06-2016 at 06:37 AM.
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post #4 of 100 Old 01-06-2016, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post
Unless the controls are behind the flip out screen, don't hold your breath.
Oh, I don't even ask for buttons, no siree. Being able to set these parameters from the touch panel would be joyful enough.
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post #5 of 100 Old 01-06-2016, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post
Oh, I don't even ask for buttons, no siree. Being able to set these parameters from the touch panel would be joyful enough.
You can have it.

Having to go into menus on a touch screen to make levels adjustments would piss me off.
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post #6 of 100 Old 01-06-2016, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
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post #7 of 100 Old 01-06-2016, 04:25 PM
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According to some it doesnt feature BOSS in 4K.
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post #8 of 100 Old 01-06-2016, 04:47 PM
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post #9 of 100 Old 01-06-2016, 04:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattias Burling View Post
According to some it doesnt feature BOSS in 4K.
Here's what it says on the site:
Quote:
Balanced Optical SteadyShot™
Advanced image stabilization suppresses camera shake to stabilize a movie as it is being shot within the wide-angle-to-telephoto zoom range. In HD shooting mode, it further reduces effects of camera shake even under unstable conditions with 5-axis Intelligent Active mode compensating for vibration in five different directions, so you can shoot stable high-quality movies even while running.
http://www.sony.com/electronics/han...specifications

So perhaps the balanced stabilizer is for all video modes while the HD mode adds 5 axis on top of that.
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post #10 of 100 Old 01-06-2016, 05:30 PM
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Seeing that it is the replacement for the AX33, I imagine that it would be fairly similar in terms of functionality. Strictly a consumer cam.
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post #11 of 100 Old 01-07-2016, 07:48 AM
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Controls or not, this little cam, at least based on the clips I've seen, appears to produce some very nice imagery.
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post #12 of 100 Old 01-07-2016, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post
Here's what it says on the site:

http://www.sony.com/electronics/han...specifications

So perhaps the balanced stabilizer is for all video modes while the HD mode adds 5 axis on top of that.
My guess is, in lower resolution modes, it can float the image electronically within the sensor for additional stabilization since it doesn't need the entire thing for the image. In 4K, there's less room to do that (since it uses more of the sensor pixels), so it has to rely mostly on the lens stabilization, which reduces the effectiveness in 4K verses 1080p mode.

Either way, I'm sure it's still very good. If they could put a 1" equivalent version of that sensor in the successor to the AX100, that would allow better stabilization just via electronic means. It would definitely make the decision some people need to make between handheld performance verses image quality a bit easier when choosing between models.
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post #13 of 100 Old 01-07-2016, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Controls or not, this little cam, at least based on the clips I've seen, appears to produce some very nice imagery.
Hi Ken:
Can you point me to your source for those clips you have seen of the AX-53. As you know I have the AX-33 and have been very satisfied with the image quality and BOSS stabilization and compactness, but as many people in the Forum I was waiting for an upgrade or new camera to replace the AX-100 with the 1 inch sensor, Instead we got and improved AX-33 according to some of the writings and improvements in low light and image resolution with the changes they have done, however I have not seen any clips or comparisons yet. I know is early and I am sure there will be many in the future but if you can point the way to the ones you have seen I' appreciate it.

I am undecided, since I sure was waiting for the new generation of the AX-100 but if this AX-53 approaches the PQ of the AX-100 I may consider it. Who knows when they will kick an AX-200 out the door.

Thanks,
Luis
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post #14 of 100 Old 01-08-2016, 08:52 AM
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Luis, here's one:
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post #15 of 100 Old 01-08-2016, 09:18 AM
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All this talk of bigger pixels makes me wonder if the AX53 has the same sensor as the Nexus 5x/6p? I have been getting outstanding stills and 4k movies out of my Nexus 5x.
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post #16 of 100 Old 01-08-2016, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
I had an AX33 for a couple of weeks. Didn't like the viewfinder and low light performance much so I went to an AX100. Hopefully the AX53's VF/low light performance is a bit better as I sure miss the BOSS when recording my son's sports....
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post #17 of 100 Old 01-08-2016, 01:51 PM
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I'm really surprised there's been no direct replacement for the AX100 yet.
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post #18 of 100 Old 01-08-2016, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
I'm really surprised there's been no direct replacement for the AX100 yet.
I'm Not. What would they add? Essentially it is still state-of-the-technology, as it is clear no one has been able to attain 4K 60p in a consumer model at a reasonable price (it's probably going to require H265 or v9 to use sd cards). And you cannot do BOSS with a big sensor and have a reasonably sized camera. They could add HFR, like in the A7S or RX100 IV or RX10 ii but that would not attract a lot of new buyers. Btw, I think the RX10 ii is probably a better video camera than the AX100 now if you don't zoom while shooting a lot.
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post #19 of 100 Old 01-08-2016, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
I'm really surprised there's been no direct replacement for the AX100 yet.
Well, other than BOSS, what's really missing that is really a deal killer for most people?

They could probably stand to make the autofocus a bit less pokey, especially in low light. That would probably be deal killer number two for some.

I think the next model could benefit from a 16x9 sensor, a little more lens at the telephoto end and the ability to output via HDMI while rolling 4K video (even if it's only in SD resolution). It might be nice to get 5.1 audio in 4K mode.

I'd like to see reference hash marks on the focus/zoom ring and a full size HDMI connector in a camera as large as the AX100. It's silly they went with micro HDMI.
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post #20 of 100 Old 01-08-2016, 08:16 PM
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Well offhand they could add:

* An improved lens
* Improved OIS...it doesn't have to be BOSS
* Better flexibility in picture controls
* Improved autofocus
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post #21 of 100 Old 01-08-2016, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Well offhand they could add:

* An improved lens
* Improved OIS...it doesn't have to be BOSS
* Better flexibility in picture controls
* Improved autofocus
They did. It's the RX10 II!
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post #22 of 100 Old 01-08-2016, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hatchback View Post
...if the AX53 has the same sensor as the Nexus 5x/6p?
Absolutely not. The 12M pixel sensor in the Nexuses 5X/6P is a Sony-made derivative of the sensor used in the iPhone 6S/6S+. I can't remember if it's a 16x9 or 4x3 but it's certainly a hybrid design for stills first and video second.

The sensor in the AX53 is an 8M pixel, 16x9, full area sampling for video. For stills, the image is cropped to a 4x3 aspect frame so the effective resolution is even lower than 8M pixels.
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post #23 of 100 Old 01-09-2016, 10:03 AM
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I really don't see how they can get 1.6 times greater pixels unless they were very inefficient with the old sensor. Based on the actual vs 35mm effective focal length of the lens the pixel size is roughly:
- AX33: 35/(29.8/3.8)/3840=1.16mu
- AX53: 35/(26.8/4.4)/3840=1.50mu
In other words we are talking about 1.3 times greater pixels. Given that AX33 has f/1.8 lens vs f/2.0 in AX53 for the most optimal settings one can expect 17% less noise based on on the light collecting ability alone. So physics wise I wouldn't expect a dramatic change in the noise profile.

For such small pixels both AX33 and AX53 lenses are effectively at the diffraction limit wide-open, i.e. any closing of the iris would lead to a softer image.

So overall looks like AX53 is going to be not very different from AX33 noise/resolution wise.
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post #24 of 100 Old 01-10-2016, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post
I'm Not. What would they add? Essentially it is still state-of-the-technology, as it is clear no one has been able to attain 4K 60p in a consumer model at a reasonable price (it's probably going to require H265 or v9 to use sd cards). And you cannot do BOSS with a big sensor and have a reasonably sized camera. They could add HFR, like in the A7S or RX100 IV or RX10 ii but that would not attract a lot of new buyers. Btw, I think the RX10 ii is probably a better video camera than the AX100 now if you don't zoom while shooting a lot.
Markr041
I agree with you on the RX-10II, I have both the AX-33 and the RX-10II and the videos from the RX-10II are superb if you don't zoom too much because it does not have the stabilization in 4K that the AX-33 has but I like the PQ I am getting from the RX-10II, I am going to try to do a comparison, one that comes to mind and beats them all even in full Hd is the Action Cam VX-1000 but there again no stabilization in 4K.
I think you need good stabilization in 4K to get the sharpest clips either that or shoot wide angle or on tripod, I am satisfied with the AX-33 because of the BOSS I WISH THE RX-10II WOULD HAVE THE SAME.
That Zeiss Vario Sonnar lens with 2.8 all the way from wide open to tele is a superb lens.

Thanks,
Luis
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post #25 of 100 Old 01-10-2016, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luidoly View Post
I am satisfied with the AX-33 because of the BOSS I WISH THE RX-10II WOULD HAVE THE SAME.
I'm actually in the opposite camp.

As someone who almost always tries to use at least a monopod while shooting video, I tend to turn image stabilization off.

The reason is, slow pans tend to mess with stabilization and you can actually end up with hitches in the video from it thinking you're shaking when you're really simply performing an intended move. The same goes for hand held stabilizers, too. Performing a deliberate move on a stabilizer can result in occasional little bumps when the stabilization maxes out and can't compensate for what wasn't actual camera shake in the first place. I've had occasions where a tiny bit of wobble on a stabilizer suddenly resulted in it looking like someone yanked the camera to one side when the confused stabilization system suddenly released in order to try again.

The problem is, stabilization works best with vibration and other sharp movement - in particular, the types of movement you get when zoomed all the way in or from walking with the camera hand held. Gentle rocking from a slightly out of balance stabilizer tends to actually fight with the camera stabilization and cause a small movement to become a large one.

For those who almost always shoot hand held, the desire for stabilization is understandable. However, I came up the pro ranks carrying 50 pounds or more of gear around on a daily basis, including a tripod the size of a Gatling gun. I used to feel like Jesse Ventura in "Predator" carrying that huge Manfrotto around.

So, carrying something like the AX-100 around with a decent video tripod to put it on is nothing for me these days. Heck, I carry at least 3 potential mounting choices (convertible monopod, clamp mount and bean bag) in my gear bag every time I head out with it. I don't shoot every day, so the tripod only comes along when I know I'll need it. I keep a smaller "just in case" tripod at work for unplanned shoots where I may need a locked down shot. It's good enough for static shots or simple pans and tilts in a pinch.

It's a great world we live in where the gear is so small that tripods are comparatively a pain to carry. However, as someone who came up through the ranks with gear that outweighed even the biggest ENG tripods by 200%, I've just gotten used to carrying gear. The fact that it's small and light enough to carry more than one as a backup (or a second angle) is a bonus. In my case (literally - in my case), I have my DSLR and lenses along with my camcorder and a couple of portable, light weight LED lights.

The result is, I can carry in one gear bag what used to require multiple Pelican hard cases the size of steamer trunks. If I'm traveling, I can condense it down to a small backpack by carrying only the essentials.

The best part is, even my consumer camera provides far better quality than 30K worth of pro gear from 30 years ago.

Last edited by NetworkTV; 01-10-2016 at 12:35 PM.
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post #26 of 100 Old 01-10-2016, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post
As someone who almost always tries to use at least a monopod while shooting video, I tend to turn image stabilization off.
I tried monopod and failed. Maybe if the lens has no IS whatsoever it is better than handheld, but with modern IS a monopod buys nothing for me, the camera still wanders around because I cannot hold the monopod completely steady - maybe you can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post
he reason is, slow pans tend to mess with stabilization and you can actually end up with hitches in the video from it
True, which is why every camcorder manual suggests to turn IS off when panning, and to perform panning off a tripod, which better had a fluid head. On the other hand, for perfectly professional panning a set of sticks and a head could cost more than a consumer camera, and would weigh a ton and would not fit a fanny pack, so one has to have priorities straight. I have a consumer-grade tripod with "fluid-like" head, but I rarely take it with me, and I take only to events I know for sure I will need to shoot at. Otherwise I carry the small Sony VCT-R100 tripod, which can pan in a pinch, but has no fluid head. But it is small, lightweight, and extends to about breast level.

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Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post
The problem is, stabilization works best with vibration and other sharp movement - in particular, the types of movement you get when zoomed all the way in or from walking with the camera hand held.
I think it works best with unsteady "hangover" hands - I have hands like this no matter was I drinking the night before or not. Yes, the IS is intended to compensate shakes that are sharp in terms of acceleration but small in terms of distance. Like hand shake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post
For those who almost always shoot hand held, the desire for stabilization is understandable.
Which is why shoulder mount cameras are still in fashion. But even they shake, compared to a completely locked-off shot. Have you watched the new "War and Peace" by BBC? They poured so much money in the production - sets, costumes, etc - but they shoot handheld or shoulder-held in lots of scenes! I get shakycam for battle scenes, but for something more calm like a conversation inside a house I would prefer a locked-off camera. I hate this trend, which has been lately popularized by the Bourne series. Makes me physically sick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post
I carry at least 3 potential mounting choices (convertible monopod, clamp mount and bean bag) in my gear bag
Clamp, right, a good idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post
It's a great world we live in where the gear is so small that tripods are comparatively a pain to carry. However, as someone who came up through the ranks with gear that outweighed even the biggest ENG tripods by 200%, I've just gotten used to carrying gear.
Do not forget that most people on this forum are amateurs. Pros usually prefer DVInfo. I used to hang out there as well until I got booted from there. Cannot keep my mouth shut. Thanks to AVS, this forum is more tolerable to arrogant self-denigrating dicks.
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post #27 of 100 Old 01-11-2016, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post
I tried monopod and failed. .... I carry the small Sony VCT-R100 tripod, which can pan in a pinch, but has no fluid head. But it is small, lightweight, and extends to about breast level.......
I have that tripod! And, hangover hands too! It is really cheap and collapses short enough to fit in carry on luggage. The handle seemed to get in the way so I replaced it with a screw I can adjust with a coin. I'm on a two week trip and am pissed I left it at home bringing a monopod instead.

For panning with hangover hands, try extending only two legs and jamming the feet in your pants pockets. Get the viewfinder at your eye and rotate your body. It takes your hand shakes mostly out of the equation. It works pretty good for static shots with IS on too.

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post #28 of 100 Old 01-13-2016, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post
I tried monopod and failed. Maybe if the lens has no IS whatsoever it is better than handheld, but with modern IS a monopod buys nothing for me, the camera still wanders around because I cannot hold the monopod completely steady - maybe you can.
That's why I use a convertible one.

It has little legs that can flip out and make it into an "almost tripod". It won't quite stand on its own, but it's still more compact than a regular tripod. Plus, it's great for using as a boom to get the camera up over people and other tall things. Unlike most travel tripods, it expands to over 6 feet tall, but is only about 2 feet long when folded up. It has a reversible screw on the head that can accept a camera directly, or an add on head. I have a small fluid head that I can screw onto it when I need to do any more graceful moves.

Having said that, I usually try to brace it with a wall, fence, railing or some other solid object when I need a more locked down look.
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post #29 of 100 Old 01-16-2016, 01:25 PM
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Nobody has the camera until now, anyway I am not sure if the point of the new camera is weather to use a monopod or a tripod.
Most interesting will be, if one should Change from ax100 to ax53, which will cost half the Price of the ax100.
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post #30 of 100 Old 01-20-2016, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenpinn View Post
Anyway, why can't Sony just produce 1 model that combines the 1" Sensor of the AX100 into the AX53, and add 4k @ 50p/60p which i need for my style of run-n-gun shooting.
The 1" sensor also needs larger optics to take advantage of it, which makes the camera bigger and heavier. Not everyone wants that. Plus, BOSS won't work with a heavier lens - not yet anyway.

You also won't get 60p at 4K in a package that small due to heating issues. You either need more room for a large heat sink or you need a fan and you won't get either in the AX-53 or AX-100 footprint. Heck, you can't even output to an external monitor while shooting in 4K with these devices.

You're not going to get what you want in that size with anything close to the price you want.
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