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post #61 of 82 Old 05-30-2018, 02:37 PM
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It’s funny Joe, AVS gets these guys all the time in the displays threads, but I can’t recall one in the camcorder threads. I spend very little time in the displays section these days because of them.
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post #62 of 82 Old 08-31-2018, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
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8K TVs Coming From Samsung, LG & TCL

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With 4K pricing suddenly sinking perilously close to commoditization, Samsung, LG and TCL all announced next-generation 8K TVs at IFA 2018 in Berlin this week. Sharp has already started selling its previously announced 8K model in Asia and Europe.


While no pricing was officially announced on any of the new 8K models, expectations are sets will initially sell in the $8,000-$10,000 range. With no available native 8K content, and none likely in the foreseeable future, all three vendors touted the upscaling qualities of their new models.


“It’s the start of a new era,” pronounced Samsung’s visual display VP, Guy Kinnell. “We know 8K content will grow over time.” While obviously still in its infancy, LG projects the 8K market will grow to more than 5 million units by 2022.


On the audio side of the market, the expansion of the “smart” voice-enabled speaker market continues, with Netgear and Harman Kardon combining on a networked smart speaker, while Sony unveiled a new Google Assistant-integrated party Bluetooth speaker and new noise cancelling headphones soon-to-be-imbued with Amazon Alexa.


8K Is On Its Way

Just as 4K TVs offer four times the pixels of 2K HD, 8K again quadruples the number of pixels from eight in 4K to a whopping 33 million (7680 x 4320), producing a stunning near-real image, especially from native 8K content.


Samsung seems the most aggressive in its 8K offerings, unveiling four sizes of its QLED ultra Ultra HD sets: 85- , 82- , 75- and 65-inch versions. According to a Samsung spokesperson, the 85-inch will be available globally in November, the 82-inch in Europe and selected other markets, both priced at $10,000-plus, and the 75- and 65-inch sets will start shipping globally in October.


Samsung’s full-array quantum dot sets will offer 4,000-nit brightness and meet 100 percent color volume certification from VDE, will feature HDR10+ and an upscaling quantum processor capable of intelligently optimizes content upscaling “from any resolution,” according to Kinnell. In its IFA booth – and presumably in its upcoming CES space – the company will be demonstrating upscaling from a variety of sources and resolutions.


LG’s plans for its 88-inch 8K OLED model are a bit vaguer; the company did not reveal when or how much, or even a model number. But the company is clearly hoping to couple 8K and OLED to continue to perpetuate a more profitable premium market.
TCL was more specific about its plans for its 75-inch quantum dot 8K set, a special FIBA Basketball World Cup 2019 Edition, which measures a mere 20mm at its thinnest point. No pricing was revealed, however. The FIBA 8K set will include an integrated Dolby Atmos Onkyo smart soundbar with Google Assistant, which can provide voice information and home control even if the set is off.


http://www.twice.com/product/ifa-20...samsung-lg-tcl







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post #63 of 82 Old 08-31-2018, 01:16 PM
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I still scratch my head on how they'll market this. When so many people can't see the difference between HD & 4K at typical viewing distances, how do they push the benefit of 8K when its resolution benefits probably won't be observable unless you sit on top of the screen? In the showroom, people won't be able to see the difference between 4K & 8K.

On the practical side, we have limited 4K content to begin with. Granted Netflix & Amazon as well as 4K BluRay are good sources, but there is nothing on the broadcast side. I get limited 4K content from a few channels on Directv, but zilch from broadcast.
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post #64 of 82 Old 08-31-2018, 05:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Ken, maybe Panasonic will have 8K 4320p mode in the their full frame



http://www.43rumors.com/ft5-panason...-september-25/


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post #65 of 82 Old 08-31-2018, 08:40 PM
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Joe, wow. Now that's an interesting development that's worthy of some excitement.

I'd be surprised if that puppy didn't have PDAF. That would be some serious competition for Sony's FF, certainly on the video side! And you're right, I wouldn't be shocked if it had 8K to boot. However I'd be more than happy with 4K60p HLG.

This has particular interest for me now since I royally screwed up a few days ago. I was thinking that my GH5's EVF was kind of dim despite my adjustments to brighten it. So I went into the menu to do a reset. I never thought that would result in the loss of 4K60p HLG, but sure enough it did. My camera now only does 4K30p HLG & 4K60p SDR just like all the others. I couldn't believe it. I was convinced that the 4K60p HLG was simply a byproduct of the older firmware I had on the camera. It was for that very reason I never upgraded to the newer firmware when it was released. So it appears my ability to do 4K60p HLG was simply a glitch in the installation of the first firmware upgrade. Who knew?

In the end, I was probably thinking the EVF was dim simply because I became so acclimated to the very bright EVF of the A7iii.
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post #66 of 82 Old 08-31-2018, 09:21 PM
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Ken, maybe Panasonic will have 8K 4320p mode in the their full frame



http://www.43rumors.com/ft5-panason...-september-25/


Hope it focuses well. I'm so tired of hearing the cliche often heard around me about the real pros using only manual focus. Maybe right if the camera one uses is a Panavision or Arri Alexa with at least a full time assistant pulling the focus for him but on cameras at this level that's a dinosaur's talk.
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post #67 of 82 Old 09-01-2018, 10:48 AM
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Perhaps the 8K 60p global shutter chip that they announced earlier this year is full frame and that's what will be used in this new Panasonic.
http://news.panasonic.com/global/pr...n180214-2.html

A camera that does 8K 60p with no rolling shutter being played back on an 8K OLED TV's will look insane especially in scenes that has a lot of motion.

Anyway, it's bean nearly 3 years since the Sony A7S II came out and so it'll be interesting to see what the successor will be like. Then you have Canon about to enter the ring of full frame mirror-less cameras.

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post #68 of 82 Old 09-01-2018, 12:07 PM
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Remember to see the difference in resolution/detail between 4K & 8K, you’ll need a very large screen and you’ll need to sit very close. I’d guarantee you you’d be sitting closer than you would normally want. This is just the physics of the normal human eye. There are a number of charts that clearly depict seating distance/resolution/screen size in terms of where people can pick up the differences in detail. It’s why so many people can’t see the difference between HD & 4K at 8’ from a 65” screen. As much of a techno nerd as I am, I just can’t get too excited about 8K. If an 8K camera, downsampled to 4K yields a better 4K picture, that’s great and perhaps worthwhile.

I saw an 8K Samsung LCD prototype about 3 years ago in Vegas (I believe it was in the 80” neighborhood), and you honestly had to be within a foot or two to see the difference. It actually attracted very little attention on the exhibit floor. I spent all of 2 minutes looking at it.

As impressed as people are that watch my 77” OLED, it’s more the nature of OLED that excites them than the 4K resolution. IMO, this he law of diminishing returns sets in once you get into these ultra-high resolutions.
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post #69 of 82 Old 01-07-2019, 03:39 PM - Thread Starter
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pre-order your 65" 8K TV for $4999 today !

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In a push to jump-start sales of 8K TV, Samsung has set an opening price point of $4,999 for its newest 65-inch model.


Video & Audio Center (VAC), the Los Angeles tech chain that helped launch Samsung’s 8K line last year, began pre-selling the 2019 65Q900RA this past weekend for $4,999. According to corporate director Tom Campbell, the retailer will also carry the 75-inch model (75Q900RA), which carries a $6,999 price point, as well as 82- and 85-inch iterations. Pricing on the two larger models were not announced.
Related: TV At CES 2019: ‘8K Is Getting Real’


Campbell said VAC expects delivery shortly after this week’s CES 2019, and will showcase the TVs at a Super Bowl event in the Bel Air section of Los Angeles on Feb. 3, at which the Big Game will be upscaled to 8K resolution.
“They’re hitting very popular price points very, very quickly,” Campbell said.
http://www.twice.com/video/samsungs...000-retail-vac
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post #70 of 82 Old 01-07-2019, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
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Remember to see the difference in resolution/detail between 4K & 8K, you’ll need a very large screen and you’ll need to sit very close. I’d guarantee you you’d be sitting closer than you would normally want.
And if you sit too close, then 24p will be too strob-y. (I don't get 8K 24p advertising video above in the thread). If the goal is "like from a window" look, then they must go at least 50/50p, maybe more.
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post #71 of 82 Old 01-07-2019, 10:14 PM
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I love sitting close. The closer the better. I want the edge of the screen to be in my peripheral vision. Very much looking forward to 8k!
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post #72 of 82 Old 01-08-2019, 06:29 AM
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I love sitting close. The closer the better. I want the edge of the screen to be in my peripheral vision. Very much looking forward to 8k!
Your viewing habits are quite atypical. The average home in the U.S. does not position their seating 2-4’ from a large screen TV. That’s where I’d have to be to meet your viewing requirements with my 77” OLED. It’s the same reason the overwhelming majority of movie goers don’t want seating in the first several rows. For many people that’s a headache inducing distance, forgetting about the logistics of the typical home.

So for average consumers that sit at typical viewing distances, they’ll never see the difference between 4K and 8K. That’s simply the nature of human visual acuity. In fact, as I’ve said many times in the past here and over in the display forums, many don’t see the difference between good HD and 4K. That’s also a fact and proved in study after study. Don’t get me wrong, as you know I’m a big advocate of 4K, not just because of the resolution advantage, but also because of color, HDR10 and DV. At my 8’ viewing distance I can see the difference between 4K and HD, but viewing charts show that even my seating position should be somewhat closer. Hatch, are you married? That in of itself will change your viewing distances (hint:decorating).

So as much of a tech nerd as I am, I see the conversion to 8K as simply a means of extracting more money from the consumer base that’s already switched to 4K. You’ll find few people who are more enthusiastic about new tech than me, but there needs to be a good rationale for that new tech. My sense is that the TV industry is still trying to figure out what that selling rationale is, and why ‘you need’ 8K. I’m far from convinced and I’m probably more involved with display tech than most here.

Finally, good luck with that 8K content. Since the advent of 4K, it has not been financially feasible for broadcasters to switch to 4K let alone 8K. There is absolutely no financial incentive for them to invest in the large capital expenditures necessary to convert their broadcasting infrastructure to 4K let alone 8K. So you’ll have to hope that the Netflix and Amazons of the world bring you the content as they have with 4K. Otherwise go grab one of the 8K cams that will inevitably be available and be content with that.
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post #73 of 82 Old 01-08-2019, 06:52 AM
 
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So you’ll have to hope that the Netflix and Amazons of the world bring you the content as they have with 4K. Otherwise go grab one of the 8K cams that will inevitably be available and be content with that.
And the streaming 4K isn't even true 4K with the lower bitrates and mangled compression. Don't worry, we'll all get our 8K, but at 200kbps - then we'll all be wishing for 1080p streaming at 4000 kbps. These companies are just trying to keep the revenue stream going without consideration (hoping that you won't notice) that the bandwidth infrastructure isn't keeping up.
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post #74 of 82 Old 01-08-2019, 07:53 AM
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LoL I move the couch forward until my knees hit the media cabinet. My wife moves it back. Eventually one of us gets tired of moving the couch (hint: it's not me!). My kids also love the close position.
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post #75 of 82 Old 01-08-2019, 07:56 AM
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And the streaming 4K isn't even true 4K with the lower bitrates and mangled compression. Don't worry, we'll all get our 8K, but at 200kbps - then we'll all be wishing for 1080p streaming at 4000 kbps. These companies are just trying to keep the revenue stream going without consideration (hoping that you won't notice) that the bandwidth infrastructure isn't keeping up.
You're thinking decades ahead of the broadcast industry... The HD I got from Verizon FIOS wasn't even 480p measured resolution. The wide shots it might have dropped to 360p. Seriously the measured resolution on sports events was so bad I cancelled my subscription rather endure that mushy crap. Getting better measured resolution from Youtube TV but still not FHD.

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post #76 of 82 Old 01-08-2019, 09:14 AM
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And the streaming 4K isn't even true 4K with the lower bitrates and mangled compression. Don't worry, we'll all get our 8K, but at 200kbps - then we'll all be wishing for 1080p streaming at 4000 kbps. These companies are just trying to keep the revenue stream going without consideration (hoping that you won't notice) that the bandwidth infrastructure isn't keeping up.
Actually the 4K on some Netflix & Amazon productions look very good on my 77". I see no macroblocking or other compression artifacts, but my connection speed is very good and buffering is extremely fast. With that said, I couldn't agree more, these companies need to keep the revenue stream going and 8K is what they hope is their new golden egg.
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post #77 of 82 Old 01-08-2019, 09:17 AM
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LoL I move the couch forward until my knees hit the media cabinet. My wife moves it back. Eventually one of us gets tired of moving the couch (hint: it's not me!). My kids also love the close position.
Too much of a pain in my case with a coffee table in between the TV and the couch. Not worth the effort. More importantly, if you're a really critical viewer as I am, moving the couch within 2-4' would reveal artifacts that aren't visible from 8'. I'd rather see what 'appears' to be a pristine picture than one laden with artifacts. Of course something like BluRay could be an exception, but BluRay constitutes a small percentage of my viewing content.
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post #78 of 82 Old 01-08-2019, 11:38 AM
 
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Actually the 4K on some Netflix & Amazon productions look very good on my 77". I see no macroblocking or other compression artifacts, but my connection speed is very good and buffering is extremely fast. With that said, I couldn't agree more, these companies need to keep the revenue stream going and 8K is what they hope is their new golden egg.
Yup. Oh, and when I was talking about 4K streaming looking crappy, I meant on my 150" screen, which has an area almost 300% larger than a 77" screen. So, casual TV viewers are not affected with low bit rates in their living rooms, but those of us with theaters are. I think the average TV size in America is 55", so even at a low sampling 8K, most won't care.
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post #79 of 82 Old 01-08-2019, 05:53 PM
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You may be a very rare case of people who watch content in a more or less optimal hometheater projection setup. Out into less private viewing areas such as most commercial screen projections like corporate rooms or educational auditoriums I have found if BOTH the room darkness AND lumen count/projection distance of the projector are not optimal then the perception of the image quality (not just apparent resolution) we are talking about here is irrelevant. It would normally be overwhelmed by a lot of external factors. Also I have found the ability to tell the distinction between HD and 4K on big screen TVs at sizes from around 43" to around 80" is often hampered not by the difference in sheer pixel count on the screen itself but more by the quality of the source materials used to playback the content. Less than optimal compression of even superbly rendered materials would also bury much of the difference between resolutions and source material quality as we have seen on our broadcast TV programs. For example, as good as YouTube videos are nowadays in terms of compression compared to broadcast TV they are still not as good, artifact-free as videos of intra-frame only codecs such as ProRes or DNXHr off the editing timeline. 4K Blu-ray compression is excellent but that is mainly because the format can accommodate very high bit rates for even the most highly compressed video codec which I believe will never happen in broadcast TV.
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post #80 of 82 Old 01-15-2019, 03:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Sharp 8K MFT , H.265, UHS-II, 5" flip out LCD

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post #81 of 82 Old 01-15-2019, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Sharp 8K studio camera

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post #82 of 82 Old 01-15-2019, 05:02 PM
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Joe, I'd order one but I just can't seem to find a bag that works.
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