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post #1 of 36 Old 09-04-2018, 04:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Sony A7Siii- possible feature set announcement at Photokina

I’m not sure how dialed in to Sony David is, but here’s what he’s heard. The thing I absolutely can’t believe Sony would do again, is leave out 4K60p. Yet missing among the list of the features discussed is 4K60p. If true, Sony desperately needs to hire an engineering team with a knowledge of cooling internal components. Dang, throw in an AC unit if necessary!

By the time the A7Siii arrives, it will be nearly 2 years since Panasonic would have had this feature in the GH5 and you know it will almost certainly be in Panasonic’s upcoming FF camera. Keep in mind this has not been substantiated as of yet, so there’s still hope.

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post #2 of 36 Old 09-04-2018, 08:39 AM
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Not a good sign for that rumor..

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/surp...-at-photokina/
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post #3 of 36 Old 09-04-2018, 08:43 AM
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Although maybe the announcement will be at IBC 2018?

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony...-on-friday-14/
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post #4 of 36 Old 09-04-2018, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by hatchback View Post
Although maybe the announcement will be at IBC 2018?

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony...-on-friday-14/
Hopefully that 4K60p rumor is correct. It’s an exercise in futility trying to figure out what Sony is doing next.
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post #5 of 36 Old 09-04-2018, 02:40 PM
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If they don't have a new processor there won't be 4K60p.
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post #6 of 36 Old 09-04-2018, 02:44 PM - Thread Starter
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It's hard to believe at this point they wouldn't have a new processor in the A7Siii, but that's still no guarantee there will be 4K60p. I believe there was a new processor in the A7iii & A9 and yet no 4K60p. Panasonic's processor will be at least 2 years old by the time the A7Siii arrives and I can't imagine Sony wouldn't have access to a similar, 2 year old processor.
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post #7 of 36 Old 09-04-2018, 03:27 PM
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My bet is 422 10bit color (internal) over 4K 60P

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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
It's hard to believe at this point they wouldn't have a new processor in the A7Siii, but that's still no guarantee there will be 4K60p. I believe there was a new processor in the A7iii & A9 and yet no 4K60p. Panasonic's processor will be at least 2 years old by the time the A7Siii arrives and I can't imagine Sony wouldn't have access to a similar, 2 year old processor.
I received a questionnaire from Sony last year asking about priorities for new features of a future camera. Among them were 422 10bit internal and 4K 60p. My bet is that 422 10bit internal is a priority over 4K 60P, as most pros do not care about high frame rates but do care about color. Even the GH5 cannot do 422 10bit and 4K 60p internal.
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post #8 of 36 Old 09-04-2018, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
It's hard to believe at this point they wouldn't have a new processor in the A7Siii, but that's still no guarantee there will be 4K60p. I believe there was a new processor in the A7iii & A9 and yet no 4K60p. Panasonic's processor will be at least 2 years old by the time the A7Siii arrives and I can't imagine Sony wouldn't have access to a similar, 2 year old processor.
I think those have the same processor as other recent Sony cameras from the last 1-2 years, but with the upgraded LSI processor for improved AF performance. Sony are due for a new processor IMO, so it possible the a7SIII will have that along with the latest LSI. I am guessing that the new a7000, or whatever they choose to call it, will come with the same chip set as the a7SIII.


After that, at CES probably updated RX10/100 cameras with the same processor (they already have the new LSI)
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post #9 of 36 Old 09-04-2018, 05:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by markr041 View Post
I received a questionnaire from Sony last year asking about priorities for new features of a future camera. Among them were 422 10bit internal and 4K 60p. My bet is that 422 10bit internal is a priority over 4K 60P, as most pros do not care about high frame rates but do care about color. Even the GH5 cannot do 422 10bit and 4K 60p internal.
I suspect more of us here would opt for the 4K60p. I’ve seen pros also asking for 4K60p. Perhaps the 4:2:2 is their priority, but probably not to the exclusion of 4K60p. How was it determined who got those surveys?
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post #10 of 36 Old 09-04-2018, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
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I suspect more of us here would opt for the 4K60p. How was it determined who got those surveys?
I think you are correct. But then no users here actually use the A7s ii.

I suspect that the questionnaire went to owners/users of the A7sii. But it could have also gone to owners/users of the A6500, which is also due for an upgrade.
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post #11 of 36 Old 09-04-2018, 05:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Tugela View Post
I think those have the same processor as other recent Sony cameras from the last 1-2 years, but with the upgraded LSI processor for improved AF performance. Sony are due for a new processor IMO, so it possible the a7SIII will have that along with the latest LSI. I am guessing that the new a7000, or whatever they choose to call it, will come with the same chip set as the a7SIII.


After that, at CES probably updated RX10/100 cameras with the same processor (they already have the new LSI)
I still don’t think Sony’s overheating issues and lack of 4K60p are due solely to an older processor. I think much of it has to do with the size and internal structure of the body itself. Remember that body has undergone very minimal changes over the years too. The GH5 body is larger and quite different.
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post #12 of 36 Old 09-04-2018, 05:33 PM - Thread Starter
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I think you are correct. But then no users here actually use the A7s ii.

I suspect that the questionnaire went to owners/users of the A7sii. But it could have also gone to owners/users of the A6500, which is also due for an upgrade.
That’s true, but some of us owned/own the A7Rii & A7iii. I feel left out.
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post #13 of 36 Old 09-05-2018, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
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That’s true, but some of us owned/own the A7Rii & A7iii. I feel left out.
You need to buy more cameras then
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post #14 of 36 Old 09-05-2018, 04:37 PM - Thread Starter
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You need to buy more cameras then
I've run out of closets.
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post #15 of 36 Old 09-05-2018, 09:44 PM
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A7 is only 4K. Old-fashioned junk.
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post #16 of 36 Old 09-06-2018, 07:29 AM
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A7 is only 1080p.
Quote:
Sony a7 key features

  • 24.3 megapixel full-frame CMOS sensor with OLPF
  • E-mount with support for FE, E, and A-mount lenses (with adapter)
  • Bionz X image processor
  • Hybrid AF system with 25 contrast-detect and 117 phase-detect points
  • Sealed alloy and composite body
  • Multi-Interface Shoe
  • 3-inch tilting LCD with 1.23 million dots (640x480, RGBW)
  • XGA (1024x768) electronic viewfinder
  • Diffraction correction technology
  • Full HD video recording at 1080/60p and 24p; uncompressed HDMI output
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-alpha-a7
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post #17 of 36 Old 09-06-2018, 08:42 PM
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A7 is only 1080p.
I am sorry, I was out of suffixes. I meant A7SIII or whatever this outdated 4K thingy is named.
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post #18 of 36 Old 12-01-2018, 01:13 PM
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New sensor spec leak leads to rumor that the A7S3 will skip to 8k 60p.


http://www.eoshd.com/2018/12/sony-a...-4k-at-480fps/
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post #19 of 36 Old 12-01-2018, 06:30 PM
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NHK started permanent 8k broadcasts today, at up to at 59.94/60/120p, audio will be 22.2 multi-channel.

http://www.newsshooter.com/2018/12/...cast-in-japan/

HDR Colorist and Conversions
INTO THE CAVE OF WONDERS
Directed by MANUEL BENITO DE VALLE Produced by PEDRO PABLO FIGUEROA
Cast MANUEL ANGEL REINA, CLAUDIA GARROTE
LOVETHEFRAME STORIES, SOUNDTRACKS AND FILMS
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post #20 of 36 Old 12-01-2018, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puddy77 View Post
New sensor spec leak leads to rumor that the A7S3 will skip to 8k 60p.


http://www.eoshd.com/2018/12/sony-a...-4k-at-480fps/
There is only a minuscule chance you'll see 8K footage out of this camera. I am pretty sure the 8K is there mainly for downsampling to 4K (probably 60p after all this time but could still be only 30p but surely at 10-bit 4:2:2 internal). The image will likely look great in the same way the 1080p footage looks out of the Sony A7S Mk1 or Canon C100, both of which having 4K or slightly higher pixel count sensor and employing downsampling. Lowlight performance could be better too by the use of downsampling as a tradeoff for a smaller pixel size when compared to that of the current A7S Mk2. Buffer-free continuous 1080/200p and 240p is also likely but not sure if Sony would go the pixel binning route or cropping down to a 4K or smaller window for full raster reading at the expense of a reduced FoV.

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post #21 of 36 Old 12-01-2018, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Roper View Post
NHK started permanent 8k broadcasts today, at up to at 59.94/60/120p, audio will be 22.2 multi-channel.

http://www.newsshooter.com/2018/12/...cast-in-japan/
"To be able to watch 8K you not only need an 8K capable television but also a dedicated satellite dish to receive the transmissions. ... At present, NHK has no concrete plans of 4K / 8K broadcasting by terrestrial digital broadcasting." At the same time, Korea broadcasts 4K in ATSC-3, and Europe gradually switches to 1080p50. Meanwhile, my local PBS affiliate sends "HD" at 5 Mbit/s in MPEG-2.

On the other hand, it is time to buy A6300: only $1K with two lenses. I wish Mark shot more stuff with it instead of playing with the GoPro toy.
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post #22 of 36 Old 12-01-2018, 10:48 PM
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[QUOTE=Ungermann;57201198]"To be able to watch 8K you not only need an 8K capable television but also a dedicated satellite dish to receive the transmissions.[QUOTE]
Deja vu. I remember this argument a few years ago when 4K started. Its called progress.
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post #23 of 36 Old 12-02-2018, 02:28 AM
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Second half of this video
is pertinent to the future of 4K/8K... etc as a VIEWING medium.
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post #24 of 36 Old 12-02-2018, 06:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Good luck editing 8K60p, even if your editor can do it. Personally I’m more interested in what a sensor like this and the accompanying electronics, brings to the table in terms of downsampling to 4K. Just as HD benefits from being downsampled from 4K, we will hopefully see quality gains in 8K>4K.

Shooting in 8K will require some hefty SD cards and data rate requirements, assuming that Sony would continue to use SD cards.

It would be quite an accomplishment for Sony to have not only conquered the 4K60p issue, but to have also done that with 8K60p and not encounter overheating.

For me, the larger question with 8K for this audience, is do we really need 8K? Many people can’t see the difference between quality HD and 4K at typical viewing distances. Having been to many high end video display shootouts, I’ve seen this phenomenon at work. As we move up the ‘law of diminishing returns’ curve, the ability to now see the differences between 4K and 8K will be even less. That’s simply the nature of human visual acuity. To benefit from 8K, you’ll need a huge screen and closer seating distances. Both of these become very difficult to achieve in the typical home.

Personally I found the difference in going from an LCD to an OLED screen, with its perfect blacks, more exciting. To me, perfect blacks have a greater impact on the overall viewing experience than nudging up in resolution. Don’t get me wrong, I love 4K and I can see the resolution advantage, but there are other PQ aspects that can be just as important, if not more so.

A couple of years ago I saw an 8K demo in Vegas. It was fascinating to watch crowds of people walk right past the 85” 8K screen (I think that was the size, it might have been a bit larger) and not even notice! I did the same thing and I was actually looking for the demo! When I turned back and finally noticed it, I like many others, was not overly impressed. I literally put my nose 1” from the screen, looking for the added detail. Yes, at very close proximity it was interesting to see the additional detail and absence of any observable pixel structure, but once you backed up to about 2-4’, it looked like an ordinary 4K screen. I stood there for about 15 minutes after I viewed, just to see other attendee’s reaction. There were many ‘shrugs’ of the shoulders, no exaggeration.

So yes, NHK has begun 8K broadcasts just as they led with 4K, but it’s quite a hassle for them to do so and they’re alone in this project. Here in the US, years after 4K’s introduction, we still have 4K only available from streaming sources (Netflix, Amazon etc) and BluRay. Broadcast? Nope, not a single broadcaster has pulled the trigger. Directv has some 4K content on 3 proprietary channels, but most of this content is repeated endlessly.

The infrastructure costs are considerable as is the bandwidth and that’s why 4K movement among broadcasters is almost non-existent. Now 8K? Okeedokey.
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post #25 of 36 Old 12-02-2018, 06:11 AM - Thread Starter
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[quote=Terfyn;57201404][QUOTE=Ungermann;57201198]"To be able to watch 8K you not only need an 8K capable television but also a dedicated satellite dish to receive the transmissions.
Quote:
Deja vu. I remember this argument a few years ago when 4K started. Its called progress.
And what progress have we seen with the availability of 4K content? Streaming, period. Years after its introduction we still have zero broadcasters doing 4K in the US. Zero. Is that progress? As far as streaming is concerned, yes, there is content, but not everyone lives in an area where internet speeds are high enough to avail themselves of streaming 4K. For them it’s 4K BluRay or nothing.

I’m sorry, aside from Netflix & Amazon, assuming you can get it reliably, there has been little progress in making 4K content prolific. Now they want buyers to run out and get that 8K Samsung? Nope, not me.
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post #26 of 36 Old 12-02-2018, 03:51 PM
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[quote=Ken Ross;57202108][quote=Terfyn;57201404]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post
"To be able to watch 8K you not only need an 8K capable television but also a dedicated satellite dish to receive the transmissions.

And what progress have we seen with the availability of 4K content? Streaming, period. Years after its introduction we still have zero broadcasters doing 4K in the US. Zero. Is that progress? As far as streaming is concerned, yes, there is content, but not everyone lives in an area where internet speeds are high enough to avail themselves of streaming 4K. For them it’s 4K BluRay or nothing.

I’m sorry, aside from Netflix & Amazon, assuming you can get it reliably, there has been little progress in making 4K content prolific. Now they want buyers to run out and get that 8K Samsung? Nope, not me.
Ken over here there is 4K broadcast SKY Q not that i have it,all i need is 4K for my own filming, i am surprised there no 4K broadcasting for you.
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post #27 of 36 Old 12-02-2018, 06:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Ken over here there is 4K broadcast SKY Q not that i have it,all i need is 4K for my own filming, i am surprised there no 4K broadcasting for you.
Chris, aside from the 3 channels on Directv, it’s only Netflix & Amazon. Broadcasters don’t want to spend the money for the considerable infrastructure upgrade that’s necessary.
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post #28 of 36 Old 12-02-2018, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
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Personally I found the difference in going from an LCD to an OLED screen, with its perfect blacks, more exciting.
This has been my position for the last several years.
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The infrastructure costs are considerable as is the bandwidth and that’s why 4K movement among broadcasters is almost non-existent.
Broadcasters realized that it is only 65+ who watch TV regularly, and they with their failing vision do not care for full detail. So instead of keeping HD going at healthy 15+ Mbit/s rates they jammed more subchannels with rates good for SD only, and this is exactly what it looks like. But who cares, because broadcast will never be able to catch up with purely data transmission systems like the Internet. YouTube does not care whether a 4K video you watch steals data rate from your neighbor - it is not YouTube's problem, it is your and your provider's problem. The ancient ATSC system that is implemented within confines of traditional 6 MGz channels, cannot adapt to that. ATSC-3 can, but after auctioning off their excess bandwidth, the broadcasters cannot soft-switch from ATSC to ATSC-3, and neither they nor most remaining viewers have incentive to do hard switch. So we are going to stay with crappy pseudo-HD for foreseeable future, and forget about 4K or 8K.
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post #29 of 36 Old 12-03-2018, 03:38 PM
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I wish they would come out with 2880p 5K monitors and TVs since the jump from 2160p 4K to 4320p 8K is too large at this time. Panasonic could come out with a 5K 2880p firmware upgrade to the GH5 today but they don't want to hurt sales of the AU-EVA1 Compact 5.7K Super 35mm Cinema Camera. The 5K 2880p 27" iMac has been out for over four years now.



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post #30 of 36 Old 12-03-2018, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Joe, I've got the 27" 5K Imac and to be honest, from a resolution standpoint when watching 4K material, I'm not wowed. To fill the 27" screen on the Imac, the image must be upscaled. So in comparing the full screen Imac image to my 4K 27" HP All-In-One (same screen size), I find the HP image sharper. Where the Imac shines, is the color quality. I've yet to see a screen where the color is better.
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