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post #31 of 187 Old 12-25-2018, 07:28 AM
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H.264 or H.265? Or both?

If you can (and are willing) would you put up a short, 4Kp60, straight from camera, unedited clip for NLE compatibility testing? I want to try it with Premiere Rush and Premiere Elements.

Vimeo would be convenient. So would Dropbox.

Thanks.

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post #32 of 187 Old 12-25-2018, 08:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsprague View Post
H.264 or H.265? Or both?

If you can (and are willing) would you put up a short, 4Kp60, straight from camera, unedited clip for NLE compatibility testing? I want to try it with Premiere Rush and Premiere Elements.

Vimeo would be convenient. So would Dropbox.

Thanks.

Bill
The first video (the opening post) I posted in this thread (Vimeo) is exactly the same as from the camera - it was not re-compressed, just joined. It is 4K 60P, and all H264. 100 Mbps. Maybe longer than you want (you can practice cutting), but it should enable you to see how it works with your software. The H265 from the GoPro is a real challenge, but this is easy.
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post #33 of 187 Old 12-25-2018, 09:59 AM
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For me the biggest detriment (and I know this is 'almost' a non-issue for many users in the way they use it) is the lack of any zoom. With that said, I'm still tempted based on the quality I'm seeing from such a ridiculously small device.
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post #34 of 187 Old 12-25-2018, 10:11 AM
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The first video (the opening post) I posted in this thread (Vimeo) is exactly the same as from the camera - it was not re-compressed, just joined. It is 4K 60P, and all H264. 100 Mbps. Maybe longer than you want (you can practice cutting), but it should enable you to see how it works with your software. The H265 from the GoPro is a real challenge, but this is easy.
Thanks Mark! I know the download feature of Vimeo works. But, you've somehow joined "out of camera clips" into a video with some sort of NLE. So, how is that not processed/encoded somehow? How are you "joining" clips? What software or magic trick have you not taught me?

I'm active on the Adobe Premiere Elements forum where GoPro and iPhone H.265 footage remains an embarrassment. Adobe just doesn't buy the license. Apple has put H.265 in iOS so Mac users of Premiere Elements can edit their iPhone H.265 footage, but not Windows users.
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post #35 of 187 Old 12-25-2018, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
For me the biggest detriment (and I know this is 'almost' a non-issue for many users in the way they use it) is the lack of any zoom. With that said, I'm still tempted based on the quality I'm seeing from such a ridiculously small device.
Me too. I hate wiggly video and just can't hold still well enough. And, the price doesn't make it that major of a decision.
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post #36 of 187 Old 12-25-2018, 10:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bsprague View Post
Thanks Mark! I know the download feature of Vimeo works. But, you've somehow joined "out of camera clips" into a video with some sort of NLE. So, how is that not processed/encoded somehow? How are you "joining" clips? What software or magic trick have you not taught me?

I'm active on the Adobe Premiere Elements forum where GoPro and iPhone H.265 footage remains an embarrassment. Adobe just doesn't buy the license. Apple has put H.265 in iOS so Mac users of Premiere Elements can edit their iPhone H.265 footage, but not Windows users.
The clips are joined without re-encoding - just the edges are processed at the joins. Smart rendering. Smart Renderer is the software. The joined clips are exactly the same as the original clips, except at the edges.
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post #37 of 187 Old 12-25-2018, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bsprague View Post
Thanks Mark! I know the download feature of Vimeo works. But, you've somehow joined "out of camera clips" into a video with some sort of NLE. So, how is that not processed/encoded somehow? How are you "joining" clips? What software or magic trick have you not taught me?

I'm active on the Adobe Premiere Elements forum where GoPro and iPhone H.265 footage remains an embarrassment. Adobe just doesn't buy the license. Apple has put H.265 in iOS so Mac users of Premiere Elements can edit their iPhone H.265 footage, but not Windows users.
Smart rendering does not re-encode; only the clip joins are processed. TMPGEnc Smart Renderer. The original video is exactly the same as the clips from the camera.
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post #38 of 187 Old 12-25-2018, 10:48 AM
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Smart rendering does not re-encode; only the clip joins are processed. TMPGEnc Smart Renderer. The original video is exactly the same as the clips from the camera.
Sheesh need this software, 90% of what I do in Vegas or Premiere is just cutting/trimming/sequencing.

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post #39 of 187 Old 12-25-2018, 11:47 AM
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Smart rendering does not re-encode; only the clip joins are processed. TMPGEnc Smart Renderer. The original video is exactly the same as the clips from the camera.
I remember that lesson from what, 5 years ago!

I'm on the road for another 10 days relying on my phone for (slow) data and you Vimeo is over a gig. I'll wait until I get better WiFi to download and try it.

Thanks.

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post #40 of 187 Old 12-25-2018, 02:10 PM
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I wish I could just set the focus to infinity with a menu item on the device. Sometimes that's all I want/need.

Or else, an easy way to toggle "Pro" mode on and off without connecting a phone. As it is, I'm leaving the Lightning adapter attached so I can "program" it prior to a shot. I'm guessing the Wi-Fi adapter will make this a bit less painful.

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post #41 of 187 Old 12-25-2018, 08:21 PM - Thread Starter
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4K Video Testing Panning

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post #42 of 187 Old 12-26-2018, 07:59 AM
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My on the road connection is too slow to watch much, but that's just as gloomy as Seattle! Green moss on the concrete and lifeless branches hanging on the wires! Love it.
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post #43 of 187 Old 12-26-2018, 12:22 PM
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How would this stack up to the GroPro 7?

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post #44 of 187 Old 12-26-2018, 03:52 PM
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How would this stack up to the GroPro 7?
I just picked up the GoPro Hero7 Black today. I'll be putting it through its paces on the next couple days, hope to have a good perspective on that question soon

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post #45 of 187 Old 12-26-2018, 06:47 PM
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I just picked up the GoPro Hero7 Black today. I'll be putting it through its paces on the next couple days, hope to have a good perspective on that question soon
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post #46 of 187 Old 12-27-2018, 06:34 AM
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Yesterday I picked up the Hero7 Black and while superficially it would seem it and the Psmo Pocket compete for the same buyer, IMO they really do not. The Osmo Pocket is much more aimed at producing cinematic footage, which necessarily means a "normal" wide-angle view (no ultra-wide) and focus (which in turn means parts of the scene can be out of focus... cinematic!) while the Hero7 Black is all about everything always being in focus.

At the end of the day, the Osmo Pocket can produce footage with a visual elegance that the Hero7 does not possess. But, the Hero7 never has to hunt for focus and is tough as nails and can compensate for "violent" shaking and of course it's an action can with a huge number of accessories available. It's just odd that the Osmo Pocket got lumped in with is when IMO the two devices produce such notably different footage and ultimately are suited for different uses.

I'll work on some comparisons.

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post #47 of 187 Old 12-27-2018, 09:07 AM
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Mark, do you find that the rhythmic, up & down bouncing you see with many of the Osmo videos (not necessarily yours), can be avoided or mitigated with practice? I'm not sure if I wasn't immediately aware of this 'oscillation', but now that I see it, I see it in the vast majority of Osmo videos. Is there some adjustment that can be made to the gimbal?
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post #48 of 187 Old 12-27-2018, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Mark, do you find that the rhythmic, up & down bouncing you see with many of the Osmo videos (not necessarily yours), can be avoided or mitigated with practice? I'm not sure if I wasn't immediately aware of this 'oscillation', but now that I see it, I see it in the vast majority of Osmo videos. Is there some adjustment that can be made to the gimbal?
This is a problem for all 3 axis gimbals of any brand or cost. Avoiding the up and down movement requires practice. It can be minimized. These gimbals outperform IBIS and BOSS for walking while shooting, of course.

The vast majority of Osmo Pocket users likely never used a gimbal before. There now will be lots of gimbal videos I bet.
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post #49 of 187 Old 12-27-2018, 10:24 AM
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Mark, do you find that the rhythmic, up & down bouncing you see with many of the Osmo videos (not necessarily yours), can be avoided or mitigated with practice? I'm not sure if I wasn't immediately aware of this 'oscillation', but now that I see it, I see it in the vast majority of Osmo videos. Is there some adjustment that can be made to the gimbal?
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This is a problem for all 3 axis gimbals of any brand or cost. Avoiding the up and down movement requires practice. It can be minimized. These gimbals outperform IBIS and BOSS for walking while shooting, of course.

The vast majority of Osmo Pocket users likely never used a gimbal before. There now will be lots of gimbal videos I bet.
The key is to keep the camera at the same height as you walk. This was even an issue with full Steadicam rigs (vest and articulated arm)... the walking style needed to get truly smooth footage has been referred to as the "Steadicam Shuffle" which amounts to keeping your knees bent as you walk so your body does not move up and down as you move forward.

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post #50 of 187 Old 12-27-2018, 01:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Testing "Cinematic" 24P SuperFine

Not Cine D (yet) just that cinema frame rate.

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post #51 of 187 Old 12-27-2018, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Yesterday I picked up the Hero7 Black and while superficially it would seem it and the Psmo Pocket compete for the same buyer, IMO they really do not. The Osmo Pocket is much more aimed at producing cinematic footage, which necessarily means a "normal" wide-angle view (no ultra-wide) and focus (which in turn means parts of the scene can be out of focus... cinematic!) while the Hero7 Black is all about everything always being in focus.

At the end of the day, the Osmo Pocket can produce footage with a visual elegance that the Hero7 does not possess. But, the Hero7 never has to hunt for focus and is tough as nails and can compensate for "violent" shaking and of course it's an action can with a huge number of accessories available. It's just odd that the Osmo Pocket got lumped in with is when IMO the two devices produce such notably different footage and ultimately are suited for different uses.

I'll work on some comparisons.
I'm looking for something like either one to record, from the rail, my favorite Pink Floyd tribute band. Both indoor and outdoor shows. Obviously lots of moving lights, which may effect the ability to focus. I hope your comparison gives a nod to the device that has relatively quick focus ability. I would think both do.

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post #52 of 187 Old 12-27-2018, 02:24 PM
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I'm looking for something like either one to record, from the rail, my favorite Pink Floyd tribute band. Both indoor and outdoor shows. Obviously lots of moving lights, which may effect the ability to focus. I hope your comparison gives a nod to the device that has relatively quick focus ability. I would think both do.
The Hero7 Black has fixed focus from (about) a foot away to infinity, the Osmo Pocket focuses pretty quickly but hunts, its behavior is not unlike a premium cellphone's camera in terms of focus performance. Anyhow, GoPro = never having to worry about focus. That's because of the f/2.8 aperture (more depth of field) and the wider FOV of the lens.

The Osmo Pocket is the more cinematic camera (by far IMO) but it's not foolproof when it comes to focusing. Also, if it's a factor, the battery life of the Osmo Pocket's is longer, but it's not replaceable. And the Hero7 Black chews through battery power when using Hypersmooth stabilization. So, Osmo Pocket is generally better for uninterrupted long recording sessions, Hero7 Black lets you swap batteries if you are out filming all day.

Notably, Hypersmooth stabilization in the Hero7 Black is NOT available in all 4K modes, including rectilinear 4K/30 and 4K/60. These are the two modes I'm most interested in, so in that sense the osmo Pocket really delivers.

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Last edited by imagic; 12-27-2018 at 02:33 PM.
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post #53 of 187 Old 12-27-2018, 03:04 PM - Thread Starter
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The Hero7 Black has fixed focus from (about) a foot away to infinity, the Osmo Pocket focuses pretty quickly but hunts, its behavior is not unlike a premium cellphone's camera in terms of focus performance. Anyhow, GoPro = never having to worry about focus. That's because of the f/2.8 aperture (more depth of field) and the wider FOV of the lens.

The Osmo Pocket is the more cinematic camera (by far IMO) but it's not foolproof when it comes to focusing. Also, if it's a factor, the battery life of the Osmo Pocket's is longer, but it's not replaceable. And the Hero7 Black chews through battery power when using Hypersmooth stabilization. So, Osmo Pocket is generally better for uninterrupted long recording sessions, Hero7 Black lets you swap batteries if you are out filming all day.

Notably, Hypersmooth stabilization in the Hero7 Black is NOT available in all 4K modes, including rectilinear 4K/30 and 4K/60. These are the two modes I'm most interested in, so in that sense the osmo Pocket really delivers.
Just to add to this: both cameras can be externally powered while shooting. That is you can hook up via the usb-C port an external power source (any portable battery pack outputting 5V 2A, for example). If you use a big pack, you can shoot continuously for many hours with either.
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post #54 of 187 Old 12-27-2018, 03:56 PM
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Just to add to this: both cameras can be externally powered while shooting. That is you can hook up via the usb-C port an external power source (any portable battery pack outputting 5V 2A, for example). If you use a big pack, you can shoot continuously for many hours with either.
Internal memory?

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post #55 of 187 Old 12-27-2018, 05:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Internal memory?
No. Microsd card - up to 256GB.
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post #57 of 187 Old 12-27-2018, 10:31 PM
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The Hero7 Black has fixed focus from (about) a foot away to infinity, the Osmo Pocket focuses pretty quickly but hunts, its behavior is not unlike a premium cellphone's camera in terms of focus performance. Anyhow, GoPro = never having to worry about focus. That's because of the f/2.8 aperture (more depth of field) and the wider FOV of the lens.

The Osmo Pocket is the more cinematic camera (by far IMO) but it's not foolproof when it comes to focusing. Also, if it's a factor, the battery life of the Osmo Pocket's is longer, but it's not replaceable. And the Hero7 Black chews through battery power when using Hypersmooth stabilization. So, Osmo Pocket is generally better for uninterrupted long recording sessions, Hero7 Black lets you swap batteries if you are out filming all day.

Notably, Hypersmooth stabilization in the Hero7 Black is NOT available in all 4K modes, including rectilinear 4K/30 and 4K/60. These are the two modes I'm most interested in, so in that sense the osmo Pocket really delivers.
Hero 7 black has hypersmooth in 4K60, you need to do the f/w update.
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post #58 of 187 Old 12-28-2018, 06:42 AM
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Hero 7 black has hypersmooth in 4K60, you need to do the f/w update.
I'm on the latest firmware. You are correct in your observation, 4K (including 60p) has Hypersmooth, but not in linear mode, only in wide and superview (which is exactly what I wrote). Wide and Superview are fine for action, but not if you want a cinematic look.

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Last edited by imagic; 12-28-2018 at 06:53 AM.
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post #59 of 187 Old 12-28-2018, 06:43 AM
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Opinions are not facts. He does not like it. Someone buy the man a beer.

He thinks it's only good for vlogging and family photos/video, which is a false claim.

I'd say he deserves any critical comments he got on YouTube, and he obviously knew he was going to get some since that's the first thing out of his mouth.

The main issue I see is the reviewer does not even understand the third application... as a cinematic production tool that you actually have with you because it really does fit your pocket.

The reviewer's take is limited by what he thinks are the only applications for the device. As a result, that video garnered 355 "thumbs down" which is a lot for a video with under 50,000 views... plus viewers on YouTube who know what they are talking about are chiming in, calling the review out:


Screen capture from YouTube

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post #60 of 187 Old 12-28-2018, 09:14 AM - Thread Starter
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By Request: 4K Night Street Scene

Lots of people want to see low-light performance, suggesting street scenes. Well, here is the street scene video:


Noise reduction in-camera was turned off. The four scenes are shown with no processing, then repeated using Neat Video noise reduction in post.

This was shot in 4K 30P Pro mode in auto, but with EV set to -2.0. My aim was to reproduce what my eye was seeing, not to turn night into daylight. That is why I kept exposure down. The ISO varies between 800 and 1600.

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