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post #61 of 187 Old 12-28-2018, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by markr041 View Post
I must say that panning looks very professional.
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post #62 of 187 Old 12-28-2018, 08:29 PM
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I'm on the latest firmware. You are correct in your observation, 4K (including 60p) has Hypersmooth, but not in linear mode, only in wide and superview (which is exactly what I wrote). Wide and Superview are fine for action, but not if you want a cinematic look.
Oh yes good point, I've never used linear mode on Hero 7 black, is it any good?
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post #63 of 187 Old 12-28-2018, 08:33 PM
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CES 2019 begins Jan. 7 with press day and this year I'm going to lean on the Osmo Pocket and the GoPro Hero7 Black as my primary capture devices.

Literally, AVS Forum coverage of the show will be a shootout between the two cameras. Well, more like a collaboration, I'd like to think. Anyhow, that's where I'm at so keep an eye out for my CES posts!

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post #64 of 187 Old 12-29-2018, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Literally, AVS Forum coverage of the show will be a shootout between the two cameras.
My hunch is that although you may start out using them equally, by the end you will reach for the gopro ~every time.
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post #65 of 187 Old 12-29-2018, 07:08 AM
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My hunch is that although you may start out using them equally, by the end you will reach for the gopro ~every time.

Since I have both and have been testing them in anticipation of the show, it's already apparent you hunch is likely incorrect.

It's a case of the right tool for the job, and neither device can do it all.

The GoPro has limitations that prevent it from being the only device I use. But it does have strengths that will make it my go-to for certain shots.

If your hunch turns out to be right, I'll gladly owe you a beer.

The main thing is this, I'm not going to be filming with only one style and that's the biggest difference between the two devices... each has a distinctive look. The Osmo Pocket's FOV and depth of field are more cinematic, period. The GoPro "looks like a GoPro." The GoPro Hero7 Black is ultra-wide and has infinite focus, plus its EIS is not able to reliably reproduce all the smooth moves that a gimbal can.

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post #66 of 187 Old 12-29-2018, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Since I have both and have been testing them in anticipation of the show, it's already apparent you hunch is likely incorrect.
If your hunch turns out to be right, I'll gladly owe you a beer.
I have no personal experience of either so have no axe to grind. My doubts stem from various comparison videos I've seen.

If you find you can rely totally on the gimbal, or if you can do multiple takes of any shot, then it's obvious you will lean towards the osmo.

Thank you for your kind offer, but as I'm in the UK it will have to be an e-beer.
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post #67 of 187 Old 12-29-2018, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Cloudstrewn View Post
I have no personal experience of either so have no axe to grind. My doubts stem from various comparison videos I've seen.

If you find you can rely totally on the gimbal, or if you can do multiple takes of any shot, then it's obvious you will lean towards the osmo.

Thank you for your kind offer, but as I'm in the UK it will have to be an e-beer.
It's no binary thing for me. Every show, I think out my kit and try new things. And since I've got background in commercial photo and video (aerials, real estate, golf, yachts, etc.) I do like to collect quality b-roll. For an interview, I think you are right the GoPro is the surer bet.

Also, I'm using the GoPro on a Zhiyun Smooth Q gimbal and that works nicely. Still ultra-wide and infinite focus, but more cinematic.



And yes... Hypersmooth plus gimbal work together and in some situations (running combined with very aggressive whip-pans) the effect is impressive.

I hope to have a "breakout show" in terms of the amount and style of video I capture. The big booths by Samsung and LG and Sony are always amazing and worth capturing. I gotta pick a monopod now... sure do wish the Osmo Pocket accessories were available, that's my main gripe at this point. Wi-Fi and the control are the two I want most.

With Osmo Pocket, the main cause of a bad take is the focus hunting. But for gear b-roll I plan to have it in Pro mode and use fixed focus so there should not be and glitchy clips, or very few anyhow. For key gear it's usually worth doing each camera move twice anyhow. I totally get your point about why you'd reach for GoPro if you just had to get guaranteed usable video on each stop with no time to check anything.

The GoPro Hero7 Black's inability to operate in Linear mode when capturing 30p or 60p 4K is a significant disappointment.

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Last edited by imagic; 12-29-2018 at 11:12 AM.
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post #68 of 187 Old 12-29-2018, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by KingBear View Post
Oh yes good point, I've never used linear mode on Hero 7 black, is it any good?
Yep, proper rectilinear projection and very wide. I can use it to scout architectural shoots, which is nice.

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post #69 of 187 Old 12-29-2018, 12:54 PM
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Here's a Osmo Pocket clip... it's a ride through the Cherry St. Pier in Philadelphia using a Onewheel. Everything is on "auto" so you'll see some spots where it trips up on the autofocus. But you'll also see it deliver an amazing continuous take in terms of stability and also adapting to the lighting.... Fwiw, the focus issues are not even visible viewed on a phone, but I will need to go back and try shooting in Pro mode with focus set to infinity.


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post #70 of 187 Old 12-29-2018, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Here's a Osmo Pocket clip... it's a ride through the Cherry St. Pier in Philadelphia using a Onewheel. Everything is on "auto" so you'll see some spots where it trips up on the autofocus. But you'll also see it deliver an amazing continuous take in terms of stability and also adapting to the lighting.... Fwiw, the focus issues are not even visible viewed on a phone, but I will need to go back and try shooting in Pro mode with focus set to infinity.

http://youtu.be/--lAoSsSuIk
Loss of focus in 48-53 is noticeable. Regarding your technique, the fast panning in 1:48 - 1:56 made my eyes hurt, literally. But it was smooth, I admit.
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post #71 of 187 Old 12-29-2018, 03:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Cloudstrewn View Post
My hunch is that although you may start out using them equally, by the end you will reach for the gopro ~every time.
I have used both the Hero7 Black and the Osmo Pocket extensively already, producing and posting many videos from both. This "hunch" is just completely wrong, unless you are in stress conditions (heavy rain, mounted on a race car, etc.). I started out using the GoPro, then when the Osmo Pocket came out I switched for almost all situations. Why?

1. The GoPro wide-angle fish-eye distortion is just plain ugly. You have to avoid straight-edged objects at the edges of frames or you will get distracting curves of straight objects - ugly - and constricting for framing shots.

2. The GoPro is just plain poor in low light. The stabilization produces artifacts and the noise reduction results in extremely soft images. They key difference is that the Osmo Pocket has an f2.0 lens, the GoPro is f2.8, letting in half of the light.

3. The 4K with stabilization on the GoPro is noticeably softer than the 4K of the Osmo Pocket. And the reason is that the GoPro's sensor is cropped by a full 10% - that is 10% loss of resolution. Not subtle.

4. The GoPro digital stabilization is very good - but to be free of artifacts you need to use high shutter speeds. That means motion will be unnatural in bright light.

One can take good, interesting videos with the GoPro. But it is inferior in almost every dimension - picture IQ, stabilization, pocketability - to the Osmo Pocket.

Last edited by markr041; 12-29-2018 at 03:16 PM.
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post #72 of 187 Old 12-29-2018, 06:07 PM
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Gerald Undone's review. If you don't like his review hit the unlike button twice, Lol.


HDR Colorist and Conversions
INTO THE CAVE OF WONDERS
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LOVETHEFRAME STORIES, SOUNDTRACKS AND FILMS
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post #73 of 187 Old 12-29-2018, 06:11 PM - Thread Starter
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post #74 of 187 Old 12-29-2018, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by markr041 View Post
This is a problem for all 3 axis gimbals of any brand or cost. Avoiding the up and down movement requires practice. It can be minimized. These gimbals outperform IBIS and BOSS for walking while shooting, of course.

The vast majority of Osmo Pocket users likely never used a gimbal before. There now will be lots of gimbal videos I bet.
My unit just came in 2 days ago and while experimenting I noticed that if lock tilt axis on the gimbal and hold it like a flash light that minimazes the up/down effect, although I must say this little thing overwhelms the BOSS system of the Sony X-3000 by a mile and the PQ in video and stills is out of this world, the colors are spot on. This little Osmo Pocket is in another league of its own, time to start selling my gimbal collection and traveling very lite.
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post #75 of 187 Old 12-29-2018, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by markr041 View Post
I have used both the Hero7 Black and the Osmo Pocket extensively already, producing and posting many videos from both. This "hunch" is just completely wrong, unless you are in stress conditions (heavy rain, mounted on a race car, etc.). I started out using the GoPro, then when the Osmo Pocket came out I switched for almost all situations. Why?

1. The GoPro wide-angle fish-eye distortion is just plain ugly. You have to avoid straight-edged objects at the edges of frames or you will get distracting curves of straight objects - ugly - and constricting for framing shots.

2. The GoPro is just plain poor in low light. The stabilization produces artifacts and the noise reduction results in extremely soft images. They key difference is that the Osmo Pocket has an f2.0 lens, the GoPro is f2.8, letting in half of the light.

3. The 4K with stabilization on the GoPro is noticeably softer than the 4K of the Osmo Pocket. And the reason is that the GoPro's sensor is cropped by a full 10% - that is 10% loss of resolution. Not subtle.

4. The GoPro digital stabilization is very good - but to be free of artifacts you need to use high shutter speeds. That means motion will be unnatural in bright light.

One can take good, interesting videos with the GoPro. But it is inferior in almost every dimension - picture IQ, stabilization, pocketability - to the Osmo Pocket.
Agree with Mark 100%
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post #76 of 187 Old 12-29-2018, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post
Loss of focus in 48-53 is noticeable. Regarding your technique, the fast panning in 1:48 - 1:56 made my eyes hurt, literally. But it was smooth, I admit.
One way that I have found to tackle the focus hunting problem is to set gimbal to respond on the fast and not the slow setting and to use continues focus all the time, the focus hunting could be improved on future firmware updates, I hope.
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post #77 of 187 Old 12-30-2018, 02:26 AM
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This "hunch" is just completely wrong, unless you are in stress conditions (heavy rain, mounted on a race car, etc.).
Thank you for your eloquent 'proof' that the osmo is far superior to the gopro.

My hunch is about stress of a sort which might apply to someone under pressure to deliver at the CES show. If the whole thing is shot in a quiet/planned/calm way, then I would have no reason to doubt the osmo.

And it is only a hunch. Which I still have
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post #78 of 187 Old 12-30-2018, 05:51 AM
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Originally Posted by luidoly View Post
My unit just came in 2 days ago and while experimenting I noticed that if lock tilt axis on the gimbal and hold it like a flash light that minimazes the up/down effect, although I must say this little thing overwhelms the BOSS system of the Sony X-3000 by a mile and the PQ in video and stills is out of this world, the colors are spot on. This little Osmo Pocket is in another league of its own, time to start selling my gimbal collection and traveling very lite.
Thanks,
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Luis, can you explain what you mean by, ‘hold it like a flashlight’? Are you saying to hold it with the long axis parallel to the ground?
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post #79 of 187 Old 12-30-2018, 06:25 AM
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Luis, can you explain what you mean by, ‘hold it like a flashlight’? Are you saying to hold it with the long axis parallel to the ground?
Hi KEN:Long time don't talk to you, How are you and your family?

Yes that is exactly what I mean, parallel to the ground, sort of like sliding it on top of a surface, this is one of the reasons that I saw almost impossible to obtain angles of view
because being so small, and when you do slow motion the up/down is almost non existent, Love the FOV with no fisheye distortion.
Thank You, and a Happy New Year!!!!
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post #80 of 187 Old 12-30-2018, 06:39 AM
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Thank you for your eloquent 'proof' that the osmo is far superior to the gopro.

My hunch is about stress of a sort which might apply to someone under pressure to deliver at the CES show. If the whole thing is shot in a quiet/planned/calm way, then I would have no reason to doubt the osmo.

And it is only a hunch. Which I still have
If I was under pressure I'd pick one device and use it. I certainly would not use CES as the test ground.

GoPro is slightly more "guaranteed" to give you something usable in a pinch, no doubt, since it does not have to focus and you can have sloppy aim and still have the subject in the frame.

But if you don't want to look like you convered CES with just a GoPro then no question Osmo Pocket.

Also, GoPro can't keep the camera level and aimed at the horizon like Osmo Pocket. Or face-track. Or give you a "bokeh" effect or handle pans smoothly or shoot stabilized, rectilinear 4K in 30p or 60p.

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Last edited by imagic; 12-30-2018 at 07:01 AM.
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post #81 of 187 Old 12-30-2018, 08:40 AM
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Also, GoPro can't keep the camera level and aimed at the horizon like Osmo Pocket. Or face-track. Or give you a "bokeh" effect or handle pans smoothly or shoot stabilized, rectilinear 4K in 30p or 60p.
As you've listed the superior features of the osmo, it seems your 'shootout' will really be more of a demonstration of that superiority .

Is it too late to change your approach, to using two very different beasts, the Insta360 ONE X and, say, the osmo? Just a thought, but you certainly wouldn't miss anything with the former! To me, it would be a more exciting 'shootout' - conventional vs 360 degree FOV.
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post #82 of 187 Old 12-30-2018, 09:53 AM
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As you've listed the superior features of the osmo, it seems your 'shootout' will really be more of a demonstration of that superiority .

Is it too late to change your approach, to using two very different beasts, the Insta360 ONE X and, say, the osmo? Just a thought, but you certainly wouldn't miss anything with the former! To me, it would be a more exciting 'shootout' - conventional vs 360 degree FOV.
But wait... there are features of the GoPro that make it very desirable to use as well. For one, it is more robust—no question. Second, I'll have a gimbal with me, so I'll be able to use it to get cinematic shots. Also, it connects via Wi-Fi whereas the Osmo Pocket's Wi-Fi accessory is not out yet. And there surely are scenes where I want the ultra-wide look, or not worry about focus. And situations where I want to tilt the camera. Or use the motion-lapse feature. or the voice control. You can shove the GoPro in your pocket without having to shut it down... that alone is nice.

How many times or ways can one say it... these are different tools and binary "this is better than that" logic does not apply. Having both with you is better than having one or the other, and they are small plus cheap enough that having both is not a burden.

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post #83 of 187 Old 12-30-2018, 12:31 PM
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How many times or ways can one say it... these are different tools and binary "this is better than that" logic does not apply. Having both with you is better than having one or the other, and they are small plus cheap enough that having both is not a burden.
Actually, your approach is manifestly binary - in terms of all the individual features which you have compared and already placed a tick in the yes or no box. This total 'binariness' will, I think, tend to influence how you use each camera - which is at odds with the essence of a shootout where the outcome is generally unknown by anyone until the last blow.

This is why I suggested the Insta360 ONE X (ok yes I admit I have one) against eg the osmo - a cutting edge comparison where the outcome is unknown, might be quite surprising, and certainly interesting.

Anyway, I look forward to your ruggedness comparison of the two - if you haven't already had to switch entirely to the go pro before this, this will be the time
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post #84 of 187 Old 12-30-2018, 12:44 PM
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Actually, your approach is manifestly binary - in terms of all the individual features which you have compared and already placed a tick in the yes or no box. This total 'binariness' will, I think, tend to influence how you use each camera - which is at odds with the essence of a shootout where the outcome is generally unknown by anyone until the last blow.

This is why I suggested the Insta360 ONE X (ok yes I admit I have one) against eg the osmo - a cutting edge comparison where the outcome is unknown, might be quite surprising, and certainly interesting.

Anyway, I look forward to your ruggedness comparison of the two - if you haven't already had to switch entirely to the go pro before this, this will be the time
Oh OK, if this is one of those Internet semantics things, please... substitute "comparison" for shootout if you think it better fits. I was speaking casually when I said that and also I have no plan to declare a "winner."

It's obvious the Hero7 Black is more robust and also I got the accidental damage insurance on the Osmo Pocket, so only actually breaking it would stop me from using it. If I could only have ONE device it would be the GoPro because it is so much more robust, there is no question there is a far higher risk of breaking the Osmo if you drop it.

As for the Insta360... 360 video is interesting, but does not really suite my needs right now, so the $400 price tag is not as easy to swallow as with the other 2 cameras.

Anyhow, I could do a "shootout" today, no need to wait, but I'm not going to because football 'n stuff But in the end while there's overlap in capability there's also a ton of differences. Seems there's enough reviews out there already comparing them in that capacity.

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post #85 of 187 Old 12-30-2018, 08:03 PM
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Gerald Undone's review. If you don't like his review hit the unlike button twice, Lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSDhen2hoH4
Good review, although I would cut everything out, leaving only the last two minutes.

Device that requires registration is no go for me. No USB Mini-B? Definitely no go.

Seems like it should have the size of its the protective container. Maybe in version 2.
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post #86 of 187 Old 12-31-2018, 05:37 AM
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Hi KEN:Long time don't talk to you, How are you and your family?

Yes that is exactly what I mean, parallel to the ground, sort of like sliding it on top of a surface, this is one of the reasons that I saw almost impossible to obtain angles of view
because being so small, and when you do slow motion the up/down is almost non existent, Love the FOV with no fisheye distortion.
Thank You, and a Happy New Year!!!!
Luis
Thanks Luis, that’s what I thought. Although minimizing walking motion, I could see where holding it that was would make framing your shot a bit more problematic. You’d have to hover over the little screen.

Family is fine, thanks for asking.
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post #87 of 187 Old 12-31-2018, 06:38 AM
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Good review, although I would cut everything out, leaving only the last two minutes.

Device that requires registration is no go for me. No USB Mini-B? Definitely no go.

Seems like it should have the size of its the protective container. Maybe in version 2.
While a registration requirement does not bother me at all, I can wrap my head around the objection.

But USB C gets no love? I'm baffled.

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post #88 of 187 Old 01-01-2019, 09:30 AM - Thread Starter
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4th axis attachment to remove up-down


All 3-axis gimbals do not correct for the up-down movement that comes from walking (nor does IBIS or OIS).

A solution is to add a 4th-axis stabilizer. This attachment corrects any 3-axis gimbal, including that on the Osmo Pocket.

The video demonstrates its effect using the Osmo Pocket. It is only $45, and is compact.
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post #89 of 187 Old 01-01-2019, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by markr041 View Post
http://youtu.be/ZYPw_em66Hw

All 3-axis gimbals do not correct for the up-down movement that comes from walking (nor does IBIS or OIS).

A solution is to add a 4th-axis stabilizer. This attachment corrects any 3-axis gimbal, including that on the Osmo Pocket.

The video demonstrates its effect using the Osmo Pocket. It is only $45, and is compact.
Daaaang, lil mini steadicam for cheap lol. I'm in, arrives Thursday. Thx for the tip! Also got a lightning extension cable, hope to mount the phone on this mini rig.

Mark Henninger, Senior Editor at AVS Forum

Last edited by imagic; 01-01-2019 at 09:14 PM.
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post #90 of 187 Old 01-01-2019, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post
http://youtu.be/ZYPw_em66Hw

All 3-axis gimbals do not correct for the up-down movement that comes from walking (nor does IBIS or OIS).

A solution is to add a 4th-axis stabilizer. This attachment corrects any 3-axis gimbal, including that on the Osmo Pocket.

The video demonstrates its effect using the Osmo Pocket. It is only $45, and is compact.
Mark, did you ever try holding the camera as Luis had suggested. He claimed it mitigated the vertical movement to some degree. I just don’t know how practical it is to hold it that way and achieve accurate framing.
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