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post #5581 of 5662 Old 11-11-2018, 08:49 AM
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Something changed in my set, or HDR calibration ?

Went to check something in my set last night, and I found the SDR settings were off. Namely, 2 Point Blue Gain.
Value changed from +10 to -9 ?

Re-calibrated with a few changes in the grayscale and CMS.

Addendum: HDMI 4 HDR+ and Game:

Edit: New Tizen TV Extension 4.1.2 out for our sets. Have downloaded it. Now, does a future FW update install this, or do I have to find out how to do it?

http://developer.samsung.com/tv/dev...-model-groups/
Attached Files
File Type: txt SamsungKS9800_HDMI4_Nov_11_2018.txt (1.7 KB, 33 views)
File Type: txt SamsungKS9800_HDMI4_HDR+_Game_Nov_12_2018.txt (1.6 KB, 28 views)

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Last edited by p5browne; 11-13-2018 at 10:31 AM.
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post #5582 of 5662 Old 11-13-2018, 12:34 AM
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Does anyone know if the built in Netflix app outputs movies in 24p or if it has any up conversion to the frame rate?

Trying to see if for Netflix to use amp on or leave it off. Thanks in advance.
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post #5583 of 5662 Old 11-15-2018, 10:52 AM
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Hello, I would appreciate your advice on the lateral pink smears (vertically aligned) that can be seen on the sides of my TV (see the picture linked please).

Have any of you experienced the same?, is this something that I should expect to get worse over time?

For background, this is my third panel (replaced last June). I got the first two panels replaced due to corner light bleeding/flashlights, this one was finally free of said issue, but now I started noting these pink smears, even (slightly) visible during some normal viewing content (when clear tones are displayed) and I’m concerned this can get worse and worse.

I am out of my 2 year warranty since September, but I should have like 1 month left for the guarantee that covers the last panel replacement/TV repair. My risk is getting light bleed again with another panel (and notable DSE too, which all 3 panels had anyway) or sticking with these smears that could get worse.

Any advice will be much appreciated, thank you.

http://imgur.com/a/w5L6yZ1
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post #5584 of 5662 Old 11-15-2018, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMR77 View Post
Hello, I would appreciate your advice on the lateral pink smears (vertically aligned) that can be seen on the sides of my TV (see the picture linked please).

Have any of you experienced the same?, is this something that I should expect to get worse over time?

For background, this is my third panel (replaced last June). I got the first two panels replaced due to corner light bleeding/flashlights, this one was finally free of said issue, but now I started noting these pink smears, even (slightly) visible during some normal viewing content (when clear tones are displayed) and I’m concerned this can get worse and worse.

I am out of my 2 year warranty since September, but I should have like 1 month left for the guarantee that covers the last panel replacement/TV repair. My risk is getting light bleed again with another panel (and notable DSE too, which all 3 panels had anyway) or sticking with these smears that could get worse.

Any advice will be much appreciated, thank you.

http://imgur.com/a/w5L6yZ1
Have you tried massaging the whole panel with the micro cloth? This should get the layers back together.

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post #5585 of 5662 Old 11-16-2018, 07:59 AM
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Have you tried massaging the whole panel with the micro cloth? This should get the layers back together.
Thanks, yes I tried it, but it didn’t help.
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post #5586 of 5662 Old 11-21-2018, 05:33 PM
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I just got a Sony 65A9F and will probably be parting with my 65ks9800. I am out on East end of Long Island, NY so PM me if anyone is interested.

Sony XBR-65A9F / Panasonic DP-UB820 / Denon AVR-X4400H 7.4.4
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post #5587 of 5662 Old 11-21-2018, 07:38 PM
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I just got a Sony 65A9F and will probably be parting with my 65ks9800. I am out on East end of Long Island, NY so PM me if anyone is interested.
You may want to keep it for those times you're watching burn in material!

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post #5588 of 5662 Old 11-24-2018, 11:08 AM
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Checked with Samsung - NO Extended Warranty BF Specials.
Will re-try on Cyber Monday, and in December re Christmas and Boxing Day, elsewise, will have to bite the bullet before January 23rd. (or not - 2nd year covered by MC)

Edit:

It appears NO Cyber Monday Extended Warranty deals either!

Note: This is in Canada. Don't know whether USA Samsung is having specials.

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Last edited by p5browne; 11-26-2018 at 07:06 AM.
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post #5589 of 5662 Old 12-04-2018, 12:30 PM
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Has anyone gotten the newer 1239.9 or 1250 FW updates?

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post #5590 of 5662 Old 12-11-2018, 10:07 PM
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HDR+ settings update for firmware 1231.1

Here are my updated HDR+ picture settings after installing firmware 1231.1. There is a change to the picture processing with SDR content which I'll explain. I've also included separate settings for TV apps and HDMI sources since they are different on my set.

So the change in processing essentially increases the top end light output relative to one's picture "brightness" preference. This is when using HDR+ mode with SDR content with Dynamic Contrast set to Low. What's actually happening is that DC is darkening the brightness profile of the picture more than it did previously and the Backlight should be increased to get the picture back to preference. Since maximum light output is linked to Backlight you now have a higher max light output with the same picture brightness preference which can increase the brightness of highlights. I've measured a 2-stop difference in Backlight after updating the firmware with DC set to Low in my calibrations. So if you're using HDR+ on SDR content with DC Low and you updated to the latest firmware, increasing the Backlight by 1 to 2 clicks should have the picture looking like it did before the update, at least that is what happened in my case.

As always, if you want a brighter overall picture than the one in these settings increasing the Backlight will get the job done without really affecting the calibration results.

Not much has changed with the HDR+ HDR settings. Contrast is now set to 100, DC is set to off, and there is a slight adjustment in the color settings.

Pretty cool to get nice boost in picture processing this late in the game.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf KS9800 HDR+ SDR Settings HDMI.pdf (224.8 KB, 32 views)
File Type: pdf KS9800 HDR+ SDR Settings TV.pdf (224.7 KB, 20 views)
File Type: pdf KS9800 HDR+ HDR Settings TV.pdf (224.2 KB, 18 views)
File Type: pdf KS9800 HDR+ HDR Settings HDMI.pdf (222.3 KB, 26 views)
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post #5591 of 5662 Old 12-12-2018, 04:16 AM
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@kbyakko I do not use HDR+. In your opinion (or fact) are the changes you've observed for firmware 1231.1 effecting movie, standard, and "regular" HDR to the extent another calibration is necessary?

I had my unit calibrated long ago (months after the KS9800 was available) by Kevin Miller and haven't had it recalibrated since. I've checked in from time-to-time with others here on the forum regarding their calibration settings whenever they happen to recalibrate, and the differences are usually subtle.

I'm happy/content as is, I'm merely looking to understand opinions why I might want to have Kevin recalibrate, especially when technology itself is advancing (like 8K, etc.).

Thanks.

p.s. others please feel free to chime in re the need to recalibrate.
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post #5592 of 5662 Old 12-12-2018, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hal250 View Post
@kbyakko I do not use HDR+. In your opinion (or fact) are the changes you've observed for firmware 1231.1 effecting movie, standard, and "regular" HDR to the extent another calibration is necessary?

I had my unit calibrated long ago (months after the KS9800 was available) by Kevin Miller and haven't had it recalibrated since. I've checked in from time-to-time with others here on the forum regarding their calibration settings whenever they happen to recalibrate, and the differences are usually subtle.

I'm happy/content as is, I'm merely looking to understand opinions why I might want to have Kevin recalibrate, especially when technology itself is advancing (like 8K, etc.).

Thanks.

p.s. others please feel free to chime in re the need to recalibrate.
At what point in it's usage timeline did you have it calibrated?
I find out of the box if not looking right, after 100 hours of usage, after 1000 hours of usage. If in an environment that changes, versus constant. (Example Summer versus Winter climate that affects the panel. I sleep with my bedroom patio door open Summer and Winter while sleeping, and this does change it's requirements. (Northern Ontario, Canada) My best reference is the 11 PM evening news - if the announcers skin tones look off, turn on the laptop on top on my sub-woofer, add meters and tripods, and after warm up, re-calibrate.)

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post #5593 of 5662 Old 12-12-2018, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hal250 View Post
@kbyakko I do not use HDR+. In your opinion (or fact) are the changes you've observed for firmware 1231.1 effecting movie, standard, and "regular" HDR to the extent another calibration is necessary?
My guess is that there are basically no changes with SDR Movie mode. I don't have any data from any recent SDR Movie mode calibrations so I can't present any evidence supporting that hunch. However, I'm pretty confident the update to my HDR+ settings is mainly if not entirely due to the fact that Dynamic Contrast is more aggressive since the update. That combined with Smart LED set to High creates the boost in HDR+ mode. My guess is that your SDR calibrations have DC set to off and probably Smart LED set to Low. If you do use DC in your settings there might be a cause for concern but then again DC works completely different in SDR HDR+ mode so it's probably not an issue. I wouldn't worry about it.

There were no major changes to any HDR picture mode that I measured which does include Movie mode.

You could take a field trip to wrong side of tracks and check out these HDR+ settings. It could be a fun.
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post #5594 of 5662 Old 12-12-2018, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by p5browne View Post
At what point in it's usage timeline did you have it calibrated?
I find out of the box if not looking right, after 100 hours of usage, after 1000 hours of usage. If in an environment that changes, versus constant. (Example Summer versus Winter climate that affects the panel. I sleep with my bedroom patio door open Summer and Winter while sleeping, and this does change it's requirements. (Northern Ontario, Canada) My best reference is the 11 PM evening news - if the announcers skin tones look off, turn on the laptop on top on my sub-woofer, add meters and tripods, and after warm up, re-calibrate.)
Hi p5browne. I forget (and perhaps didn't even record) the precise firmware version, but the date of the calibration was October 29, 2016. At the time and prior to the calibration, the unit had approximately 200 hours of usage on it, and that was per Kevin's recommendation.
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post #5595 of 5662 Old 12-12-2018, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by kbyakko View Post
My guess is that there are basically no changes with SDR Movie mode. I don't have any data from any recent SDR Movie mode calibrations so I can't present any evidence supporting that hunch. However, I'm pretty confident the update to my HDR+ settings is mainly if not entirely due to the fact that Dynamic Contrast is more aggressive since the update. That combined with Smart LED set to High creates the boost in HDR+ mode. My guess is that your SDR calibrations have DC set to off and probably Smart LED set to Low. If you do use DC in your settings there might be a cause for concern but then again DC works completely different in SDR HDR+ mode so it's probably not an issue. I wouldn't worry about it.

There were no major changes to any HDR picture mode that I measured which does include Movie mode.

You could take a field trip to wrong side of tracks and check out these HDR+ settings. It could be a fun.
Hi kbyakko. Thanks for your reply to my previous question.

If by "DC" you mean Dynamic Contrast, in my case this is set "Off" in movie mode, "Low" in standard mode, and "Off" when HDR is engaged.

In the case of Smart LED, in my case this is set "Low" in movie mode, "Low" in standard mode, and "High" when HDR is engaged.
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post #5596 of 5662 Old 12-12-2018, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbyakko View Post
Here are my updated HDR+ picture settings after installing firmware 1231.1. There is a change to the picture processing with SDR content which I'll explain. I've also included separate settings for TV apps and HDMI sources since they are different on my set.

So the change in processing essentially increases the top end light output relative to one's picture "brightness" preference. This is when using HDR+ mode with SDR content with Dynamic Contrast set to Low. What's actually happening is that DC is darkening the brightness profile of the picture more than it did previously and the Backlight should be increased to get the picture back to preference. Since maximum light output is linked to Backlight you now have a higher max light output with the same picture brightness preference which can increase the brightness of highlights. I've measured a 2-stop difference in Backlight after updating the firmware with DC set to Low in my calibrations. So if you're using HDR+ on SDR content with DC Low and you updated to the latest firmware, increasing the Backlight by 1 to 2 clicks should have the picture looking like it did before the update, at least that is what happened in my case.

As always, if you want a brighter overall picture than the one in these settings increasing the Backlight will get the job done without really affecting the calibration results.

Not much has changed with the HDR+ HDR settings. Contrast is now set to 100, DC is set to off, and there is a slight adjustment in the color settings.

Pretty cool to get nice boost in picture processing this late in the game.

kbyakko, thanks for sharing these. I do have a question on the SDR to HDR+ settings that I might have already asked the last time you updated these settings.
Question is Didnt we agree the 2.0 white balance on the offset side had to be close to the negative side to avoid all the hazy grays and get deeper blacks? But in these settings they are almost neutral... any particular reason for this?

And we all know that Tint level on Native color space isnt accurate either. Its more pink than red...
Thanks!

Last edited by b0rnarian; 12-12-2018 at 03:17 PM.
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post #5597 of 5662 Old 12-12-2018, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by hal250 View Post
Hi kbyakko. Thanks for your reply to my previous question.

If by "DC" you mean Dynamic Contrast, in my case this is set "Off" in movie mode, "Low" in standard mode, and "Off" when HDR is engaged.

In the case of Smart LED, in my case this is set "Low" in movie mode, "Low" in standard mode, and "High" when HDR is engaged.
That's correct, I meant Dynamic Contrast. Judging from your settings I think your calibrations aren't affected. Since you have Dynamic Contrast set to Low in Standard mode there may be the possibility that your picture is a bit brighter than before if it is true that the effect of Dynamic Contrast is augmented in all modes. But even if that is the case you can lower you Backlight a click or two and not affect your calibration. My measurements have shown that a slight change in Backlight doesn't really change the results of the white balance and color space.
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post #5598 of 5662 Old 12-12-2018, 10:46 PM
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Hi p5browne. I forget (and perhaps didn't even record) the precise firmware version, but the date of the calibration was October 29, 2016. At the time and prior to the calibration, the unit had approximately 200 hours of usage on it, and that was per Kevin's recommendation.
That's going on 3 years, with multiple FW updates, and I've found my set got brighter as time went on the set. I would say it would definitely be time to at least get a scan done on your set, to see where things are now, close to 2019.

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post #5599 of 5662 Old 12-13-2018, 01:08 AM
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That's going on 3 years, with multiple FW updates, and I've found my set got brighter as time went on the set. I would say it would definitely be time to at least get a scan done on your set, to see where things are now, close to 2019.
When is 2 years and 1.5 months, not 2 years and 1.5 months? When it's "going on 3 years"! LOL

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post #5600 of 5662 Old 12-13-2018, 02:22 PM
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Question is Didnt we agree the 2.0 white balance on the offset side had to be close to the negative side to avoid all the hazy grays and get deeper blacks? But in these settings they are almost neutral... any particular reason for this?

And we all know that Tint level on Native color space isnt accurate either. Its more pink than red...
Thanks!
That's right. I originally lowered the White Balance Offset values to darken the darker tones of the picture. I moved away from that because I could never get the colors to look right. At least that's what I recall. I do remember thinking that using the white balance method got you a higher peak brightness but after a while I couldn't deal with how the colors looked at times. It wasn't until recently that I realized that the white balance offsets drop was making the luminance of the colors much lower than they should've been. It makes sense but never occurred to me.

It's odd that your reds looks pink because they are red on my screen when using Native color space. Try resetting your Tint, Color, and White Balance. I can't imagine that the TVs could be that different but I guess it's possible.
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post #5601 of 5662 Old 12-13-2018, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by kbyakko View Post
That's right. I originally lowered the White Balance Offset values to darken the darker tones of the picture. I moved away from that because I could never get the colors to look right. At least that's what I recall. I do remember thinking that using the white balance method got you a higher peak brightness but after a while I couldn't deal with how the colors looked at times. It wasn't until recently that I realized that the white balance offsets drop was making the luminance of the colors much lower than they should've been. It makes sense but never occurred to me.

It's odd that your reds looks pink because they are red on my screen when using Native color space. Try resetting your Tint, Color, and White Balance. I can't imagine that the TVs could be that different but I guess it's possible.
So what you're saying is white balance in the middle gives better color gradation but does it still make the blacks milky gray like it used to?

PS, the native color space being off is very commonly discussed here. We all used to shift the tint two or three points to get the reds correct on Native... we used to claim that Native gives bigger color volume for Sdr to hdr conversion and changing the tint was a solution of fixing the Reds. But since then we've gotten away from using Native and stick with custom for the most part.
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post #5602 of 5662 Old 12-13-2018, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by b0rnarian View Post
So what you're saying is white balance in the middle gives better color gradation but does it still make the blacks milky gray like it used to?

PS, the native color space being off is very commonly discussed here. We all used to shift the tint two or three points to get the reds correct on Native... we used to claim that Native gives bigger color volume for Sdr to hdr conversion and changing the tint was a solution of fixing the Reds. But since then we've gotten away from using Native and stick with custom for the most part.
Yes, the colors look better to me when the white balance is near the middle. They also measure better. If you have Dynamic Contrast set to Off then black may look less dark. Setting Dynamic Contrast to Low fixes that without affecting the colors.

Ah, interesting. Reds were never my issue with Native. It was always too much blue for me. It's a good thing Custom became an option.
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post #5603 of 5662 Old 12-13-2018, 10:00 PM
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CMS Scan Results

CMS Scan Results:

Calibrated Custom - all values are 0 to .1

Native: Red 3, Green 5.5, Blue 5 Yellow 2 Cyan 5.1 Magenta 3

Auto: Red .5 Green .1 Blue .1 Yellow .2 Cyan .5 Magenta 2

Definitely, Native is NOT where you want to go versus calibrated.Custom, next best bet if NOT calibrated would be Auto.

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post #5604 of 5662 Old 12-14-2018, 01:12 AM
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For those inquiring minds, I confirmed tonight that the KS9800 doesnt have hdr10+ ability, at least through HDMI. I used the Hdr10+ capable Panasonic UB824 and hdr10+ Disc "Beautiful Planet".



75Q9FN* Oppo 203 * Denon X4200 * S9+*
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75Q9FN *Galaxy S9+ *Ub820 fed into Oppo 203* XB1X* 4k Denon X4200

MASTER LIST OF HDR CONTENT THREAD HERE, UPDATED OFTEN

Last edited by ray0414; 12-14-2018 at 01:15 AM.
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post #5605 of 5662 Old 12-14-2018, 01:20 AM
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Also, if a anybody is curious about the Panasonic 4k BD Player and it's tone mapping abilities, here's an example.

Batman Vs Superman, 4000 nit container. dynamic contrast was turned to high on TV. Which causes clipping of highlights and color within those highlights. Hdr Optimizer being turned ON was able to restore detail and color and reduce clipping despite dynamic contrast being turned on. Results were similar with Dynamic Contrast turned off.

75Q9FN* Oppo 203 * Denon X4200 * S9+*
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75Q9FN *Galaxy S9+ *Ub820 fed into Oppo 203* XB1X* 4k Denon X4200

MASTER LIST OF HDR CONTENT THREAD HERE, UPDATED OFTEN
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post #5606 of 5662 Old 12-14-2018, 04:04 PM
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Ordered up 2 Samsung Blu-ray players for my kids for Christmas. One turned out to be defective.
While looking for a replacement, Samsung Dealer says he's sold out, and when he tried to re-order, he was told Samsung is no longer going to be manufacturing Blu-ray players!

So if Samsung is not going to be putting out an HDR10 + Blu-ray player for playback anymore, what does this say about the future of HDR10 + ?

UN65KS9800 - Mine
UN65HU9000 + SEK-3500U / UN75JU7100 / UN55HU7250 with SEK-3500U in UJS9000 Mod Mode / UN40J5200AF / HiSense 40H5507 - Wife's
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post #5607 of 5662 Old 12-14-2018, 04:52 PM
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@ray0414 , many many thanks for that info. Do you have a timecode for that BVSDOJ screenshot please? I'd like to see what it looks like on my own setup for comparison ta.

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HDMI 2.0 4K modes | Dolby & DTS core+outer audio tracks on (UHD) Blu-Rays | Hello to Jason Isaacs
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post #5608 of 5662 Old 12-17-2018, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
@ray0414 , many many thanks for that info. Do you have a timecode for that BVSDOJ screenshot please? I'd like to see what it looks like on my own setup for comparison [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG] ta.
Its gotta be toward the end of the movie with the big monster fight. I'll try and find it unless Ray replies first.
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Best,
Main Living Room: Samsung 65 KS9800 + Audio: Onkyo HT-S6300 7.1 + Sony UBP-X800 + PS4
Other Living Room: Panasonic Plasma 55 + Onkyo Home Theater System 5.1 + PS3
Discs For SALE : 4Ks And 2Ks!
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post #5609 of 5662 Old 12-19-2018, 03:08 PM
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Set seems to have finally stabilized

New Calman RC3 5.9.2.55 software: Only a minor tweak here and there now days. (Calman just released RC3 5.9.2.59)
Attached Files
File Type: txt SamsungKS9800_HDMI4_Dec_19_2018.txt (1.7 KB, 25 views)

UN65KS9800 - Mine
UN65HU9000 + SEK-3500U / UN75JU7100 / UN55HU7250 with SEK-3500U in UJS9000 Mod Mode / UN40J5200AF / HiSense 40H5507 - Wife's
UN55NU8000 X 2 - my 2 kids families (or should I say adults?)

Last edited by p5browne; 12-21-2018 at 03:49 PM.
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post #5610 of 5662 Old 12-23-2018, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post
New Calman RC3 5.9.2.55 software: Only a minor tweak here and there now days. (Calman just released RC3 5.9.2.59)
Hi p5browne. Just for ****s and giggles I compared my calibration data to those in your last attachment. My 2 point and 10 point white balance settings are extremely different than yours, however, my color space values are extremely similar. Where you have a backlight setting of 6, I have mine at 4. Where you have contrast at 96, I once had this set at 95 and then lowered it to 86 as a result of using the spears and munsil clipping test pattern. I'm posting this simply for your reference.
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