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post #1 of 24 Old 10-22-2018, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Sophisticated Den - New HT room with wet bar

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Hi everyone,

Newbie here. Long time theatre admirer, and finally getting a chance to build one. Overall room size 22’-3”W x 8’-6”H x 15’-2”D. This is going to be a new media room and entertainment room for my wife and I and friends/family. We do not have any children.

A few existing conditions that I cannot get rid of:
- Existing tile floor over infloor heating. (yes, I know, far from ideal, but too expensive to rip out).
- Wet bar plumbing rough-ins are to be reuse, (see drawing).

Overall intent:
- This is our only TV in our house and we will be getting a new 75” QLED TV.
- New raised platform with a reclining loveseat and will be built as noted per drawing below.
- To creat a mid-budget theatre
- Budget $15,000cdn
- As I am in the design industry my dollar goes farther:-)
- Not looking for the best but looking for value and something we won’t regret in a month.


Existing Equipment:
- TV, 55" 4K: Samsung UN55KU7000F (For the time being)
- Receiver: Yamaha RX-V581
- Sub: Sony SA-WMSP87
- Blu-Ray: Samsung BD-J6300 (for the time being)
- Front Speakers: Pioneer SP-FS52


Proposed New Equipment:
- New 75” QLED TV, specs to be confirmed
- New 4k Blu-Ray, specs to be confirmed
- New Subwoofer: SVS PB-1000 (1 for now, will get a second one to replace the Sony sub in the future)
- Heigh Speakers: SVS Prime Elevation
- Centre Channel Speaker: Philharmonic Audio MTM center channel
- Rear surround: Pioneer SP-BS22-LR

QUESTIONS/ASSISTANCE NEEDED:
1. We are going to do Atmos 5.1.2 using existing fronts and receiver. With our love seat at the back wall, and based on our specific layout, would you use rear mounted surrounds or side mounted? Also when you have 2 tiered seating do you base height of the rears on the back higher tier or an average?
2. Feeling like SVS Prime Elevation mounted to ceiling would be our best bet for Atmos speakers. Should they be placed half way between the front and rear seats?
3. What are some brands of cheap 2” acoustic foam I can put behind our drapes? We need about 200 sq.ft. To do the rear and left wall behind the drapes.
4. Our ceiling is existing drywall. Would you add acoustic panels to the ceiling?
5. While we will try and cover the majority of the floor in the seating area with carpet and rugs, there will still be some exposed stone floor and the stone floor in the wet bar area is staying (wife won’t let that be covered, lol). Anything else I can do to mitigate reflection?

Thank you in advance!
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Last edited by phanttom; 11-12-2018 at 10:53 PM.
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post #2 of 24 Old 10-23-2018, 05:35 AM
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First off, I would consider rotating the room, so there would be a symmetrical front, with reflective side walls.

I would suggest that 2" of foam and drapes are going to suck out the high frequencies in your room.
The floor will be reflective, but a large area rug could help, yet still show off some of the floor.

If there's ever to be a projector in the room, you could employ DIY AT screen materials later, and simply use inexpensive
speaker grill fabric to cover in the AT space, and two 2x4" to support the hdtv in the meantime.
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post #3 of 24 Old 10-23-2018, 06:08 AM
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Have to agree with Tedd. Flip the room and it gives you a better wall for TV. Also a room with a 75tv is not a HT. At least 110in is my limit. Also you do not need a riser and 2nd row for a 75in flat screen' unless those seats come with binoculars. Could be a great room though.
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post #4 of 24 Old 10-23-2018, 06:28 AM
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welcome Phanttom, by now you realize this is a tough crowd. You are trying to fit a lot in a small space, with seating for 8 adults don't overlook the need to beef up your air conditioning and fresh air supply for this room.
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post #5 of 24 Old 10-23-2018, 06:48 AM
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I wish that "tough crowd" had saved me from some "been there, done that" mistakes, and
shaved a remodel or two, off my home theater learning curve.

In that light, it's never a bad idea to bounce alternative ideas to someone. In my experience,
they often simply are stepping stones to an even better idea.


Forgot to add my quickie diagram...
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post #6 of 24 Old 10-23-2018, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you everyone. For now based on budget we will just be doing the TV. I know for some that may not be big enough:-). Ironically the room was roughed-in for the screen/TV to be like Tedd showed. But when my wife and her first husband did rough-ins they didn’t do a seating plan. I first laid out the room as did Tedd for the same reasons, but for functionality my wife didn’t like walking into the side of a sofa/riser.

We like the roser idea as the back row will be power reclining we want to be high enough to miss the heads of people in front.

As such I think the layout might have to be like that but will see if my wife will reconsider orientation.
@BIGmouthinDC , thanks for the comment on AC. Right now our basement is super cold all year round as we have in floor heating and cooling so we hope that will be sufficient. Living in Northern Alberta has its pluses. Lol.
@Tedd , thx for the feedback on the acoustics. We will try just the area rug as planned and drapes for the feel but will delete foam. We can always add the foam in the future. Would you still add a couple of acoustic ceiling panels or keep the drywall?

Also how do I determine best location for the SVS height speakers that will be mounted on the ceiling between first and 2nd row? Half way in between?

Build Thread:http://01900888.com/forum/19-de...m-wet-bar.html
Theatre Room: Samsung UN55KU7000F | Pioneer SP-FS52 x 2 | Polk MC80 x 2
Incoming: JVC DLA-X590RB | 120" Elunevision 4K Reference Tab 2.35:1 | Philharmonic Audio Affordable Accuracy Center Channel
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post #7 of 24 Old 10-23-2018, 03:43 PM
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There's more feedback on having a symmetrical front with reflective side walls. Sound pans rely on this,
and all three front speakers with that layout will sound slightly different. We rely on reflective sound to
place spatial clues, and the Mrs with her superior hearing, is actually far more likely to notice this.

You also are not considering 450+ watts per seated body/hr + projector heat + electronics heat. I've been in a
few home theaters over the years where the air has been overwhelmed.

If you do a big screen, nobody is going to notice the seating, when entering. Their eyes are going to be drawn
to the screen right away.

I would treat the first reflection points, but with your proposed layout, there's no side wall there, to treat.
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post #8 of 24 Old 10-23-2018, 04:17 PM
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I see a popcorn machine in the layout, I have one and I kick myself every-time I use it in a room much larger than yours that I didn't install a ceiling kitchen exhaust fan directly over it. I open a window. I see you have one. You will also need that in the winter to cool the room when you fill all your seats.
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post #9 of 24 Old 10-23-2018, 06:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
I see a popcorn machine in the layout, I have one and I kick myself every-time I use it in a room much larger than yours that I didn't install a ceiling kitchen exhaust fan directly over it. I open a window. I see you have one. You will also need that in the winter to cool the room when you fill all your seats.
Great point...COmmercially we always do, but wasn't even thinking about my own house...lol. Might rethink that one, or use one that does air pop. Kitchen is only 1 floor above
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post #10 of 24 Old 10-23-2018, 06:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post
There's more feedback on having a symmetrical front with reflective side walls. Sound pans rely on this,
and all three front speakers with that layout will sound slightly different. We rely on reflective sound to
place spatial clues, and the Mrs with her superior hearing, is actually far more likely to notice this.

You also are not considering 450+ watts per seated body/hr + projector heat + electronics heat. I've been in a
few home theaters over the years where the air has been overwhelmed.

If you do a big screen, nobody is going to notice the seating, when entering. Their eyes are going to be drawn
to the screen right away.

I would treat the first reflection points, but with your proposed layout, there's no side wall there, to treat.
We looked at layout again tonight and while we totally get the symmetrical requirements for the perfect system, maybe my thread should be elsewhere on the site as we also want to entertain a bit. WE would use it daily as our TV/Theatre room, but when friends come over, move downstairs and have our liquor kept there. As such, if we rotate it 90 degrees, the whole back area truly gets eaten up (partially due to the existing column in the way which we are not in the position to relocate as it's one of the few columns in the basement (pretty open basement otherwise). So we will have to sacrifice symmetry for part of our programming needs of the space.

HVAC we will review further with one of my Mech. Engineers I work with and a tin basher we know. I'm told they did some rough-ins but need to find it first.

I appreciate the feedback!
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post #11 of 24 Old 10-28-2018, 05:20 PM - Thread Starter
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So, we have finalized our layout after reviewing the layout again. While we know that turning the room 90 degrees would be ideal for sound, the room just wouldn't function the way we want unless we deleted the riser which we don't want with having reclining seats/loveseat at the back.

So now, i'm struggling/confused by TV placement, angle & height. I hope someone can dumb it down for me. Below is a copy of our elevation/section of the space.


Final Layout:
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Side Elevation/Section
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post #12 of 24 Old 11-04-2018, 05:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Well the build started yesterday. Between yesterday and today got the raised platform built and the wall to the bar area.

Platform is built with 2x10’s. They were supposed to be 2x12’s but Home Depot delivered the wrong items. Made do and put a 2x4 on side below to make up the difference.

Laid 15lb roofing felt between existing tile floor and platform. 2x6’s with joist hangers at 16” centres and a central cripple for each joist.

Cavity filled with 3 layers of R12 batt insulation.

3/4” t&g ply on top glued with PL400 and screwed at 8-12” centers depending on location.

Wall was built with 2x6’s and 1/2” MDF on both sides. Reduced need to tape and mud GWB. Wall was anchored to the side of the platform with twenty 3/8” x 3” lag bolts before the other side of MDF was installed.

Nosing extends past riser by 1.5” to conceal new RGB strip lights with metal channel.

Next weekend might be the wet bar and repaint. Maybe even carpet tile if it arrives from Tandus.
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Build Thread:http://01900888.com/forum/19-de...m-wet-bar.html
Theatre Room: Samsung UN55KU7000F | Pioneer SP-FS52 x 2 | Polk MC80 x 2
Incoming: JVC DLA-X590RB | 120" Elunevision 4K Reference Tab 2.35:1 | Philharmonic Audio Affordable Accuracy Center Channel
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post #13 of 24 Old 11-12-2018, 10:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Weekend 2 done. Got the entire basement painted. Used Dulux Ultra Flat, Colour: Improbable #DLX1011 .5

Tandus carpet tile started with rubber backing.
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I need some screen/projector advice too, please see thread here: http://01900888.com/forum/68-di...92-screen.html
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Last edited by phanttom; 11-12-2018 at 10:48 AM.
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post #14 of 24 Old 11-17-2018, 02:26 PM
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Cool to see another Edmontonian on here! Following the thread.

Love the look and colour on the walls. Are you keeping the mirror on the wall? Seems like that will be tough for sound reflections and light reflections if you decide on a projector.
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post #15 of 24 Old 11-17-2018, 08:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamtaylorsmith View Post
Cool to see another Edmontonian on here! Following the thread.

Love the look and colour on the walls. Are you keeping the mirror on the wall? Seems like that will be tough for sound reflections and light reflections if you decide on a projector.
Hey. Nice to meet you. That mirror is getting covered with some acoustical material and drapes. We kept it in case we wver convert it back to a gym ( doubtful, as the other gym is still on the other side).

Build Thread:http://01900888.com/forum/19-de...m-wet-bar.html
Theatre Room: Samsung UN55KU7000F | Pioneer SP-FS52 x 2 | Polk MC80 x 2
Incoming: JVC DLA-X590RB | 120" Elunevision 4K Reference Tab 2.35:1 | Philharmonic Audio Affordable Accuracy Center Channel
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post #16 of 24 Old 11-19-2018, 09:25 PM - Thread Starter
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- Carpet 95% done. Ran out so Tandus is sending me more. Should be here for end of week. Just 4 more squares.

- Room painted. Colour: Improbable by Dulux using Ultra Flat paint.

- Bar cabinet install started. Templating for Hanstone starts Wednesday.

- Order for new Elunevision screen goes in this week along with new Theatre seats.

- Ikea tomorrow night for blackout drapes and rest of cabinets including CD storage and more.

- Waiting for invoice from Philharmonic Audio for my new modified Pioneer Centre.

- Probably get the Monitor Audio Brinze Fx and C165 ceiling speakers for Atmos this week if my local AD has a Black Friday week sale on.

- Waiting for Lutron Caseta in Black to come in from my Lutron rep and new Diffusion Lighting led strip lights for the risers.

- Final electrical to be first part of December.

- projector to be ordered for arrival before holidays.
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Build Thread:http://01900888.com/forum/19-de...m-wet-bar.html
Theatre Room: Samsung UN55KU7000F | Pioneer SP-FS52 x 2 | Polk MC80 x 2
Incoming: JVC DLA-X590RB | 120" Elunevision 4K Reference Tab 2.35:1 | Philharmonic Audio Affordable Accuracy Center Channel
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post #17 of 24 Old 11-20-2018, 04:48 PM
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Making good progress
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post #18 of 24 Old 11-25-2018, 12:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Spent the last week finalizing Ikea cabinet setup. Used Sektion for the wet bar lowers and Besta for the uppers. It was interesting mounting the Besta uppers as we did many pilot holes after hitting a water line beside a stud last week Fix was easy with a Shark Bite, but still sucked. Been a bit paranoid since about hitting another water line as the wet bar wall backs onto the basement washroom with shower. So tonight we did pilot holes and decided for all but 1 location where we knew for sure there was a stud, to use snap toggle bolts. Used a 1/2" spade bit to drill the holes but would only let the tip to through the drywall, then used a small screwdriver to probe. Glad we did that because at one area, there was some weird metal objet behind (see photo with 3 holes). So we dropped it 1" and were fine.

Also mounted Besta to our side walls with doors for DVD/Blu-Ray storage...Looks great. Quartz counters were templated yesterday by FloForm. Going with Hanstone, Sterling Grey.

Ordered Polk MC80 for the in-ceiling Atmos speakers today for a great deal.


Next up:
- Install metal stair nosings & LED tread lights
- Install blackout drapes on back wall where window is & side wall where mirrors are. Using Ikea Majgull blackout drapes in grey.
- Have electrician run power for projector & screen, add (2) Cat6 lines, change out all plugs for black, install black Lutron Caseta switches
- Finish plumbing once counters are in.
- Install projector (JVC DLA-X590RB) & screen (Elunevision, 120" 4K Reference Tab Tension 2.35:1)
- Install Theater One Seating, Helios black seats at back row. Doing 2 chairs now, will expand to 4 next year.
- Order and install (2) Wine fridges in wet bar.
- Miscellaneous Decor
- DONE! (for now)


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Build Thread:http://01900888.com/forum/19-de...m-wet-bar.html
Theatre Room: Samsung UN55KU7000F | Pioneer SP-FS52 x 2 | Polk MC80 x 2
Incoming: JVC DLA-X590RB | 120" Elunevision 4K Reference Tab 2.35:1 | Philharmonic Audio Affordable Accuracy Center Channel

Last edited by phanttom; 11-25-2018 at 12:54 AM.
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post #19 of 24 Old 11-25-2018, 01:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winty82 View Post
Making good progress
Thanks! Been spending 80% of my weekends and some week nights with my wife. Would like to be 70% done by Christmas.

Build Thread:http://01900888.com/forum/19-de...m-wet-bar.html
Theatre Room: Samsung UN55KU7000F | Pioneer SP-FS52 x 2 | Polk MC80 x 2
Incoming: JVC DLA-X590RB | 120" Elunevision 4K Reference Tab 2.35:1 | Philharmonic Audio Affordable Accuracy Center Channel
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post #20 of 24 Old 11-25-2018, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phanttom View Post
Spent the last week finalizing Ikea cabinet setup. Used Sektion for the wet bar lowers and Besta for the uppers. It was interesting mounting the Besta uppers as we did many pilot holes after hitting a water line beside a stud last week Fix was easy with a Shark Bite, but still sucked. Been a bit paranoid since about hitting another water line as the wet bar wall backs onto the basement washroom with shower. So tonight we did pilot holes and decided for all but 1 location where we knew for sure there was a stud, to use snap toggle bolts. Used a 1/2" spade bit to drill the holes but would only let the tip to through the drywall, then used a small screwdriver to probe. Glad we did that because at one area, there was some weird metal objet behind (see photo with 3 holes). So we dropped it 1" and were fine.

Also mounted Besta to our side walls with doors for DVD/Blu-Ray storage...Looks great. Quartz counters were templated yesterday by FloForm. Going with Hanstone, Sterling Grey.

Ordered Polk MC80 for the in-ceiling Atmos speakers today for a great deal.


Next up:
- Install metal stair nosings & LED tread lights
- Install blackout drapes on back wall where window is & side wall where mirrors are. Using Ikea Majgull blackout drapes in grey.
- Have electrician run power for projector & screen, add (2) Cat6 lines, change out all plugs for black, install black Lutron Caseta switches
- Finish plumbing once counters are in.
- Install projector (JVC DLA-X590RB) & screen (Elunevision, 120" 4K Reference Tab Tension 2.35:1)
- Install Theater One Seating, Helios black seats at back row. Doing 2 chairs now, will expand to 4 next year.
- Order and install (2) Wine fridges in wet bar.
- Miscellaneous Decor
- DONE! (for now)


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It's looking great down there. Love the lego collection.

Have you used Caseta switches before? I'm looking to upgrade to smart lighting, and the Caseta line seems like the best way to go.
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post #21 of 24 Old 11-25-2018, 08:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamtaylorsmith View Post
It's looking great down there. Love the lego collection.

Have you used Caseta switches before? I'm looking to upgrade to smart lighting, and the Caseta line seems like the best way to go.


Thanks! Yeah a bit of lego is always needed.

As for Casseta, I have some experience with it as a commercial interior designer. I just had a seminar with a Lutron rep, a Lutron 5-star dealer, an electrician and an electrical engineer. Lutron is my go to for dimmers in general. I feel the Lutron is an amazing value system with their app for retrofit applications. They can do larger commercial systems too with other systems. Casseta is their entry system, but is great. Unlike many other systems, if the hub goes down, the switch still works as a regular switch. Through a Lutron dealer you can also get black switches. Most box stores only do white.

The lamp module is great, BUT you cannot use the lamp module for equipment. For that I use WEMO to turn on our Rocket Espresso machine to warm up the boiler.

Build Thread:http://01900888.com/forum/19-de...m-wet-bar.html
Theatre Room: Samsung UN55KU7000F | Pioneer SP-FS52 x 2 | Polk MC80 x 2
Incoming: JVC DLA-X590RB | 120" Elunevision 4K Reference Tab 2.35:1 | Philharmonic Audio Affordable Accuracy Center Channel
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post #22 of 24 Old 11-28-2018, 01:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Spent the evening last night installing nosing on the riser (pictures to come).

Wanted to say thanks to @Tedd for his assistance. I got a 32" 720p TV from Superstore for $100cdn. Have converted it into a digital movie poster! I have created my own template in photoshop for 1080x1920 pixels. LOVING IT!

Now to design the shroud and have it fabricated.


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Build Thread:http://01900888.com/forum/19-de...m-wet-bar.html
Theatre Room: Samsung UN55KU7000F | Pioneer SP-FS52 x 2 | Polk MC80 x 2
Incoming: JVC DLA-X590RB | 120" Elunevision 4K Reference Tab 2.35:1 | Philharmonic Audio Affordable Accuracy Center Channel
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post #23 of 24 Old 11-28-2018, 11:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Got a great deal on Hue Striplights today: 80" + 40" extension for $100cdn from Best Buy. So i got 2 sets + a bridge for $280'ish with tax (cdn). Ran 1 @ 80" + 2 @ 40" for the stairs, then used the other 80" on it's own under the bar cabinets.

Installed the new 32" 768p Westinghouse TV in portrait mode on the wall. Used the Peerlees PRMF2X2 mount for $18cdn from Visions!!!!! It is now our movie poster display. Will get a custom shroud made. The USB interface is simple, BUT the slideshow it doesn't turn on automatically when the TV comes on. Might look at a cheap Raspberry or something to connect to the TV, that might be better. NOTE: While the VESA 200x200 works either landscape or portrait for the mount, when you actually rotate it 90 degrees into portrait, the bracket on the TV doesn't slide down into the wall bracket. As such I could only use 3 of 4 VESA screws on the TV, but it weights nothing so i'm not too concerned.).

Link to mount: http://www.visions.ca/Catalogue/Cat...83&sku=PRMF2X2

Updated photos from today.

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Build Thread:http://01900888.com/forum/19-de...m-wet-bar.html
Theatre Room: Samsung UN55KU7000F | Pioneer SP-FS52 x 2 | Polk MC80 x 2
Incoming: JVC DLA-X590RB | 120" Elunevision 4K Reference Tab 2.35:1 | Philharmonic Audio Affordable Accuracy Center Channel
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post #24 of 24 Old 12-15-2018, 12:47 AM - Thread Starter
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So after 6 weeks, 100% of construction is done. Lutron black caseta dimmers and hue strip lights installed. Ikea blackout drapes installed. Bar 100% done with new Hanstone Sterling Grey quartz tops. Cabinets are a combination of Sektion lower & Besta uppers.

Left to do
- Install Atmos Speakers (Polk MC80)
- Install power for projector & screen + install Ruipro HDMi cable & Cat 6 lines
- Order & install MA Bronze FX Rears
- Order & install Screen, Elunevision 2.35:1 motorized tab tension
- Order & install projector: still deciding between JVC DLA-X590RB & Epson 4050 (need to see my final budget)
- Order & Install theatre seats, Theatre One Seating, Helios
- Build decorative frame around digital movie poster
- Wall posters/pictures on front wall on each side of TV
- Order two new wine fridges for under bar.


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Build Thread:http://01900888.com/forum/19-de...m-wet-bar.html
Theatre Room: Samsung UN55KU7000F | Pioneer SP-FS52 x 2 | Polk MC80 x 2
Incoming: JVC DLA-X590RB | 120" Elunevision 4K Reference Tab 2.35:1 | Philharmonic Audio Affordable Accuracy Center Channel

Last edited by phanttom; 12-15-2018 at 12:54 AM. Reason: add photos
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