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post #1471 of 1494 Old 01-09-2019, 09:45 AM
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Last year they said a mobile phone maker seemed interested in their offer of free chips, haven't heard a thing since... damn PR nonsense
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post #1472 of 1494 Old 01-09-2019, 08:08 PM
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Suppose they launched a ATSC 3.0 chip, and nobody came.

"Espresso is like tequila, when in doubt apply more shots."
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post #1473 of 1494 Old 01-09-2019, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by tenthplanet View Post
Suppose they launched a ATSC 3.0 chip, and nobody came.
Do you have any idea the amount of money taken in by the Smart Phone venders and the Wireless Cell Phone companies?

They could pay off the National Debt in a Month, Week, Day, Hour, Minute, Second - I don't know. I recently saw the clip of the first Cell Phone Call again.

Never underestimate what is profitable, companies win and companies lose.

-----------------------
I just placed an order for three Glow In The Dark wall switch plates. After asking if the company would change their website to allow sales to the United States of America. They are based in San Francisco, California. About 60 miles North West of me in Silicon Valley. Before Canada was the only country they would accept. I got a 10% off coupon.

I have loved Glow In The Dark items forever, I have the Solar System above me with Saturn hitting my HDTV when the furnace runs. A cow jumping over the moon plus some stars and cats. I have two black lights on that make them glow and five (5) Black Light posters on the wall.

I can remember the time my eyes glowed when the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago turned on their Black Light.

We have been bashing ATSC 3.0 here a lot but remember that tons of money have been spent to develop that chip and the money that may be made not tons but perhaps the weight of the Earth.

SHF
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post #1474 of 1494 Old 01-09-2019, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
Do you have any idea the amount of money taken in by the Smart Phone venders and the Wireless Cell Phone companies?

They could pay off the National Debt in a Month, Week, Day, Hour, Minute, Second - I don't know. I recently saw the clip of the first Cell Phone Call again.

Never underestimate what is profitable, companies win and companies lose.

-----------------------
I just placed an order for three Glow In The Dark wall switch plates. After asking if the company would change their website to allow sales to the United States of America. They are based in San Francisco, California. About 60 miles North West of me in Silicon Valley. Before Canada was the only country they would accept. I got a 10% off coupon.

I have loved Glow In The Dark items forever, I have the Solar System above me with Saturn hitting my HDTV when the furnace runs. A cow jumping over the moon plus some stars and cats. I have two black lights on that make them glow and five (5) Black Light posters on the wall.

I can remember the time my eyes glowed when the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago turned on their Black Light.

We have been bashing ATSC 3.0 here a lot but remember that tons of money have been spent to develop that chip and the money that may be made not tons but perhaps the weight of the Earth.

SHF
Except ATSC 3.0 depends on large screen TV's to have a future. The TV market is very price sensitive. Most cell phone owners won't care. ATSC 3.0 won't be a cash cow for some time (if ever).

"Espresso is like tequila, when in doubt apply more shots."
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post #1475 of 1494 Old 01-09-2019, 11:06 PM
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Except ATSC 3.0 depends on large screen TV's to have a future. The TV market is very price sensitive. Most cell phone owners won't care. ATSC 3.0 won't be a cash cow for some time (if ever).
OK, hold your smart phone in your hand and compare the screen to your HDTV on the wall. Move the smart phone closer until the screen sizes are the same.

Your eyes (Even my $4400 new eyes) cannot tell the difference.

Large Displays are useful when the viewers are many in number.

SHF
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post #1476 of 1494 Old 01-10-2019, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by tenthplanet View Post
Except ATSC 3.0 depends on large screen TV's to have a future. The TV market is very price sensitive. Most cell phone owners won't care. ATSC 3.0 won't be a cash cow for some time (if ever).
Have you looked at the price of large screen 4K TVs lately? There's a lot of them priced at under $500. Of course folks here prefer "status" brands.


Home theater is no longer the domain of the well heeled.
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post #1477 of 1494 Old 01-10-2019, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by tenthplanet View Post
Except ATSC 3.0 depends on large screen TV's to have a future. The TV market is very price sensitive. Most cell phone owners won't care. ATSC 3.0 won't be a cash cow for some time (if ever).
Why does it depend on large screen TVs? HDR can be easily seen on a screen of any size. And ATSC 3.0 broadcasts will mostly be 1080P and lower resolutions. Not 2160P

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post #1478 of 1494 Old 01-10-2019, 12:51 PM
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OK, hold your smart phone in your hand and compare the screen to your HDTV on the wall. Move the smart phone closer until the screen sizes are the same.



Your eyes (Even my $4400 new eyes) cannot tell the difference.



Large Displays are useful when the viewers are many in number.



SHF


I have 3 kids ages 13, 15, 17.
We have OTA , Netflix, Amazon prime, no cable. Older 2 have smartphones, younger one just a old iPhone 5s as w/o data.

While my kids will watch content on their devices, they’d rather on our 55” hdtv or basement HT.

I’m truly disappointed at lack of clear launch roadmap for 3.0, why can’t it be made?


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post #1479 of 1494 Old 01-13-2019, 08:43 PM
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Have you looked at the price of large screen 4K TVs lately? There's a lot of them priced at under $500. Of course folks here prefer "status" brands.


Home theater is no longer the domain of the well heeled.
Most people are not running 4k on those sets and may never. Almost all new sets are 4k so it no long qualifies as a feature. Most of the folks here would run 4k on a 4k set.

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post #1480 of 1494 Old 01-14-2019, 01:29 PM
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Sneals2000 made an interesting point in another thread:
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Originally Posted by sneals2000 View Post
In baseband terms ... higher display resolutions need shorter viewing distances to make sense in display terms. However nothing is ever that simple is it?

720p is often compressed harder than 1080i/p, which itself is often compressed harder than 2160p, and compression artifacts on a 720p compressed signal will be larger (in relative 'on screen size' terms) to compression artifacts on a 1080i/p or 2160p signal scaled to 720p.

If you compare a received 720p signal displayed at 720p, with a received 1080i/p signal displayed at 720p, and a received 2160p signal displayed at 720p - you get a slightly different story.

Compression artifacts (particularly in systems with fixed macro-block sizes - like MPEG2) are much visible (as the source pixels for 'mosquito noise' and macro blocks are both larger and more visible) if a signal is carried via a 720p compressed route than a 1080i/p or 2160p compressed route.

This is one reason why SD broadcasts on an SD display often look far worse than an HD broadcast displayed on an SD display (and this is without NTSC composite footprints being involved)
What I took away from that is, you may notice a better picture from a 4K broadcast, even if you don't have a 4K TV! (As long as your ATSC 3.0 tuner decompresses before downscaling to your TV's resolution, and depending on how h.265 does things vs. MPEG2, etc.)
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post #1481 of 1494 Old 01-15-2019, 03:55 AM
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Sneals2000 made an interesting point in another thread:What I took away from that is, you may notice a better picture from a 4K broadcast, even if you don't have a 4K TV! (As long as your ATSC 3.0 tuner decompresses before downscaling to your TV's resolution, and depending on how h.265 does things vs. MPEG2, etc.)
To be honest the benefits in terms of reducing compression artefacts are probably more a benefit to legacy MPEG2 stuff. h.265/HEVC (and possibly to a lesser degree h.264/AVC) does a much better job of minimising the visibility of compression artefacts compared to MPEG2.

However you would still benefit from oversampling (as do HD productions shot on UHD cameras using UHD lenses now)
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post #1482 of 1494 Old 01-16-2019, 10:29 AM
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A couple of new articles from TVTechnology, one bullish and the other bearish with regard to future prospects of ATSC 3.0:


ATSC 3.0
Ooyala: Broadcasters' Future Is With OTT
Report declares ATSC 3.0 ‘dead on arrival’

By Tom Butts, TVTechnology.com - Jan 16, 2019

The explosion of streaming/OTT services and channels have given the average American TV household more choices than ever before. Although Millennials are increasingly abandoning traditional TV for viewing SVOD on mobile devices, Baby Boomers are not far behind in their adoption of OTT as well, according to a new report from Ooyala.

“While older viewers remain the lifeblood of traditional broadcasters, increasingly they too are adopting OTT,” said Jim O’Brien, principal analyst for the company in its “State of the Broadcast Industry 2019.” He cited a 2018 Kagan survey that showed that VOD-only viewing among Internet adults had doubled to 12 percent from 6 percent a year earlier, with Boomers and the Silent Generation--those born before World War II--showing the biggest shift toward VOD.

In respect to UHD, consumers are “all in” on the high-res format, O’Brien said, citing a report from Futuresource that predicts double digit growth in sales into 2022 as UHD TV shipments “power past 100 million units” in 2018. China is the biggest market for UHD, followed by the U.S.

The demand for UHD/4K content will be driven by new, affordable 4K-capable streaming devices and the availability of content from services such as Netflix. “Broadcasters have upped their UHD game as well,” O’Brien said. “The promise of 4K and UHD content from the Winter Olympics and FIFA World Cup helped drive consumer interested and prompted more broadcasters to make those streams available.”

Ironically, if broadcasters are going to deliver on the promise of UHD, it won’t be via the new broadcast standard ATSC 3.0, according to the report. O’Brien cited the slow process of standards development and deployment and questions over whether consumer electronics devices will be available as mitigating factors.

“The standards have been debated for years,” he said. “Every major broadcasting conference contains multiple sessions to talk about its future, and several major players have promised to support it. The bigger problem may be a simple one: Consumers. Television sets need the right chips to take advantage of ATSC 3.0, so consumer electronics manufacturers have to be onboard.”

This impatience was reflected in a quote from Frank Aycock, a “theoretical televisionist” and professor at Appalachian State University: “It’s time to declare ATSC 3.0 DOA,” he said. “Just like Mobile DTV before it, ATSC 3.0 has not lived (and is not living) up to the hype that heralded its introduction to the 21st Century Television audience.”

“The bottom line may be that 5G is already winning the content delivery race before it has even officially begun,” O’Brien concludes.

The report recommends broadcasters wholeheartedly embrace OTT, citing the networks’ move towards creating their own OTT portals for network programming.

“Broadcasters CBS and NBCU have turned selling content to streamers into an art, even calling out impressive revenue streams from OTT sales as highlights in quarterly earnings calls,” O’Brien said. “That, more than anything else, shines a bright light on the future of broadcasting and the future of streaming.

http://www.tvtechnology.com/news/oo...re-is-with-ott



OTA

Nielsen Sees ‘Resurgence' In OTA Households

Number of households labeled OTA has nearly doubles in the past eight years

By Tom Butts, TVTechnology.com - Jan 15, 2019

The number of households receiving their television via over the air antenna now represents 14 percent of all U.S. television households, nearly double what it was eight years ago, according to a new report from Nielsen.

With the television industry being upended by the emergence of multiple streaming options, the result has been declining pay-TV subscriptions and the increasing use of alternate methods of distribution, including the old-fashioned TV antenna.

“As of May 2018, more than 14% of all TV households—or 16 million homes—have OTA status, and that number is on the rise,” said Justin Laporte, vice president of Local Insights for Nielsen, in its latest “Local Watch Report.” “As consumers look for more on-demand and cost-effective options, there has been a resurgence in this type of television household.”

In its report, which analyzes the evolving habits of viewers, Nielsen divided these OTA households into two categories: “Plus SVOD,” those households that supplement their viewing options with streaming services such as Hulu (not Hulu Live), Amazon Prime and Netflix; and “No SVOD,” households that get their television strictly via antenna.

There are distinct differences in the demographics and behavior of the two types of households, according to Nielsen.

“The ‘No SVOD” homes tend to be older, more diverse and have a smaller median income, compared to the “Plus SVOD” segment, which skews younger, more affluent and more device-connected,” Laporte said said. “We see different media behavior with Plus SVOD homes consuming less traditional media and spending more time on personal devices. In an average day, the No SVOD homes have more viewing to broadcast stations, at almost five hours, than all of the TV usage combined in Plus SVOD homes.”

A third, but smaller and growing category—part of the “Plus SVOD” group—consists of households that get their programming via streaming services such as DirecTV Now, Youtube TV, Sling TV and others. These “virtual multichannel video programming distributors,” (vMVPD) make up 1.3 million of the Plus SVOD households, according to Nielsen.

“Sharing a similar profile to the Plus SVOD group as a whole, these consumers have a higher median income and access to more devices,” Laporte said. “They also have access to individual cable networks and spend an almost equal amount of time watching broadcast and cable sources.”

Here is the breakdown:

No SVOD: This group represents 6 percent of total U.S. homes, comprising 6.6 million homes in the U.S. This demographic skews older, with over half households of median income of less than 30K. They are also less likely to own mobile devices such as smartphones, streaming devices or tablets.

Plus SVOD: There are 9.4 million homes, representing 8 percent of total U.S. homes that make up this segment. The median viewer age is 36 and the households have a higher average income and more “well connected” with more access to mobile and streaming devices.

Geographically, Milwaukee has the largest percentage of “No SVOD” households: (11.1%) and Plus SVOD households (no vMVPD): (16%), while Dayton, Ohio has the largest percentage of “Plus SVOD (with vMVPD) households, representing 2.7% of all U.S. households.

Regardless of what Nielsen labels them, they are all considered “cord cutters” or “cord nevers” by the industry.

http://www.tvtechnology.com/news/ni...ota-households
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post #1483 of 1494 Old 01-16-2019, 04:23 PM
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A couple of new articles from TVTechnology, one bullish and the other bearish with regard to future prospects of ATSC 3.0:
Oh, no, no, no, NO! That's not how I read it...

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In its report, which analyzes the evolving habits of viewers, Nielsen divided these OTA households into two categories: “Plus SVOD,” those households that supplement their viewing options with streaming services such as Hulu (not Hulu Live), Amazon Prime and Netflix; and “No SVOD,” households that get their television strictly via antenna.
So there are OTA-only households and OTA+SVOD households, but no SVOD-only households?!? Those just don't exist?!?

If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you. And my SVOD-only friends have bridges to sell you, too. Come to think of it, my FREE-VOD-only friends have got some bridges, too.

And if the industry doesn't even see those households??? OMG, are some folks in for a rude awakening!!!

And the fact that Nielsen is even peddling this delusion is how you KNOW that ATSC 3.0 is DOA...…
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post #1484 of 1494 Old 01-16-2019, 05:33 PM
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Don't be ridiculous. If ATSC 3.0 was DOA we'd already be seeing the Sinclair chips in the bargain bins at Radio Shack and...oh wait a minute--never mind.
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post #1485 of 1494 Old 01-17-2019, 06:28 AM
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Odd time to hang it up

http://www.tvtechnology.com/atsc3/a...ces-retirement


Just as ATSC 3.0 is about to drive our cars, offer hundreds of channels on one frequency, 4K, and emergency announcements, the top ATSC 3.0 dog quits.
Hmmmmmm....
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post #1486 of 1494 Old 01-17-2019, 07:14 AM
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All is not lost, but there sure is a lot of finger-pointing going on..

ATSC 3.0
Searching For ATSC 3.0 At CES 2019
Industry executives offer their views on standard’s absence
By James E. O'Neal - TVTechnology.com - January 17, 2019

LAS VEGAS--As Yogi Berra might have observed about this year’s CES, “It was déjà vu all over again,” (at least with regard to the next-gen TV sets being displayed by both large and small manufacturers.)

Last year, with the ink still drying on the 3.0 standard and the FCC’s green-lighting of its use by the nation’s TV stations a couple of months earlier, ATSC, NAB and CTA industry officials gathered to celebrate its arrival with a champagne toast on the opening day of the CES. However, there was not a single 3.0-capable set to be found among the super-bright, super-big, super-colorful, super-intelligent, (and, in some cases, super-expensive) television receivers that literally reached the ceiling of the Los Vegas Convention Center which hosted the 2018 show.

Fast forward a year—has there been any change in the 3.0 situation?

In a word, no! If anything, there was less ATSC 3.0 presence this time, as one TV manufacturer did put up a sign in its 2018 CES display space that touted the benefits of the new DTV transmission standard. Not even the sign was there this time.

CRITICAL MASS

While most of the TV set exhibitors quizzed about the lack of ATSC 3.0 product (which has been available since 2017 in South Korea) were silent about its absence at CES, John Taylor, senior vice president of public affairs for LG USA did offer an explanation.

“You’re a year or so early,” he said. “We’re trying to time the introduction of the product with the critical mass of Next-Gen TV broadcasting, and the whole industry seems to be moving toward a 2020 product launch.” Taylor did seem fairly certain that the 3.0 sets would be populating manufacturers’ exhibit spaces at the 2020 CES to “prime the pumps” of buyers who would be at that show to decide what to stock their stores with for the 2020 holiday buying season.

And while others in the industry have hinted that there may be a problem with delivery of some of the components needed for 3.0 sets, Taylor was quick to state otherwise.

“There’s no technology issue at all,” he said. “It’s a business marketplace consideration about the right time to introduce the product in the U.S. market. We could ship the product today. As you know, we’re shipping ATSC 3.0 TVs in Korea, but it has to make sense for the U.S. market and that’s heading towards 2020.”

Taylor noted that LG and its Zenith R&D subsidiary are providing receiver products and technical support for some of the U.S. ATSC 3.0 field trials.

THE VIEW FROM OVERSEAS

Peter Siebert, head of technology for the DVB (Digital Video Broadcast organization, a Swiss-based consortium that sets digital broadcast transmission standards for Europe, and is roughly the equivalent of the Advanced Television Systems Committee), was at the show and had a slightly more pessimistic view when asked about the appearance of ATSC 3.0 TVs at the 2020 edition of the “world’s biggest consumer electronics show.”

“I don’t think so,” said Siebert. “And the reason why I don’t think so is that there has to be a strong commitment from the broadcasting community to say ‘we will introduce the service,’ and personally from a European perspective, I don’t hear this message from the North American broadcasters.

“It’s a typical ‘chicken and egg’ problem and there must be somebody breaking it,” he continued. “The broadcasters must say ‘we offer a service.’ It doesn’t help that the industry develops products first. For example, when I look at the televisions, there are many 4K televisions on the market. However, this doesn’t mean that we have 4K broadcasts. I think the broadcaster has to make a firm commitment to introduce the service and then the receiver industry will follow.”

Siebert noted that when the United Kingdom decided to migrate from the original DVB-T (terrestrial broadcast) standard, which was struck in 1997, to an updated version, DVB-T2, which was completed in 2008, there was no “chicken and egg” situation because there was a clear commitment from the BBC for a rollout of the improved HD service via DVB-T2.

“It can go very fast if well planned,” he said, noting that the transition was accomplished in Ukraine in a single year and in two years in Germany. Siebert did admit that the move to DVB-T2 didn’t go quite so fast in every European nation, explaining that “typically, the more a country is relying on terrestrial television, the longer it takes, because you have a much bigger legacy of receivers that you have to update before you can start a new service.”

However, lack of suitable receivers didn’t seem to be an issue in the DVB-T2 transition.

“In Germany, when we went from DVB-T to DVB-T2, we had all stakeholders sitting together at a round table and making a plan on how to introduce T2,” said Siebert. “It was very clear. The broadcasters said on this date we will switch our transmissions to the new DVB-T2 specification. And it was also very clear that the consumer industry [would be] ready way before this, providing the necessary equipment. So, at the time the switchover happened, quite a high percentage of receiving equipment was ready. I think it is necessary that all stakeholders sit together, to agree on a plan and then stick to the plan.”

THE VIEW FROM SINCLAIR

Since ATSC 3.0’s inception, one of its biggest backers has been the Sinclair Broadcast Group, and for the past several years the broadcast station group has been at CES to promote the standard, even operating a transmitter on Black Mountain south of Las Vegas to provide TV set exhibitors with 3.0 signals to demonstrate reception of OTA UHD video at the show. Sinclair has also hosted demonstrations of 3.0 technologies a few blocks away from the convention halls in a suite at the Wynn Hotel.

Mark Aitken, Sinclair’s vice president of advanced technology, was on hand this year to offer his take on the absent ATSC 3.0 hardware.

“I think it’s very simple,” said Aitken. “There two issues. The difficult one is content protection, and this issue has not been answered. You’ve got a lot of dancing around on the part of the networks with respect to what their requirements are for content protection, and not a single solution that has been put on the table has been supported by all of the content providers—and I might add content distributors or MVPDs. So, you have a bit of a stalemate. For me, it’s a fairly easy one to resolve. I look at it and say as a starting point ‘if Widevine [DRM] is good enough for Netflix, why isn’t it good enough for broadcast?’

“The networks will always try to extract the broadcaster from out of the middle of the relationship with the consumer,” continued Aitken, noting that reluctance of networks and program providers to allow their content to be transmitted by affiliates deploying ATSC-M/H [aka Mobile DTV] was one of the reasons for that mobile initiative’s ultimate demise.

“I think there’s been a soft promise made on the part of broadcasters that we’re willing to come to a solution. There’s been an unwillingness on the part of the large content players to sit down and really try to solve that problem, at least with Sinclair. They have their own views and their views are not shared equally with all broadcasters. And so, for the very same reasons that we ended up with Dolby AC-4 as an abstraction of the Atmos production environment in Hollywood, the issue of content protection is being driven by those same Hollywood entities, which for a broadcaster is driven through the network.”

Aitken summed up the situation by stating: “It is a political problem, absolutely.”

Aitken said that Sinclair will light up 26 markets by the end of 2019.

“There’s a requirement by the FCC that there be some replication across ATSC 1.0 and ATSC 3.0,” he said. “There may have to be an opportunity to force that issue at a regulatory level, which nobody really wants. But at the end of the day sometimes you solve problems by spilling a little blood first.”

THE CHIP

Despite his disappointment with this stalemate in the rollout of 3.0, Aitken was in a celebratory mood as he announced the release of an integrated circuit specially designed and fabricated for Sinclair. The chip’s unveiling marked the end of a nearly two-year journey that began with a pledge to supply free ATSC 3.0 demodulator chipsets to any company manufacturing smartphones or other handheld viewing devices that would commit to including them in their products.

Explaining the genesis of the project, Aitken—who is a firm believer that broadcast television’s future lies in mobile devices—said that after surveying existing 3.0 chip products, he quickly came to the conclusion that none were really satisfactory for mobile device applications.

“We knew what sort of power the available chips consumed,” said Aitken. “It’s easy enough to guess the power requirement specs, because it’s almost like a curling iron if you’ve ever put your finger on one. If we were ever going to have a mobile-enabled device—something that was suitable for embedding in phones, something that could couple-up to a cellphone without draining the life out of the phone—we would have to create it.”

Frustrated that none of the large consumer electronics firms showed much interest in mobile TV products, he decided to go it alone.

“We went literally to the top of the ladder, and at the end of the day, they saw the world the way that they choose to see the world,” he said. “They saw no place for mobile ATSC; certainly not at this time.”

Aitken recalled an Indian company with a reputation for low-power consumption specialty integrated circuit design—Saankhya Labs—from his involvement with ATSC M/H—and contacted them.

“I decided to pick up the phone and have a conversation with Praag Naik, who is the president,” said Aitken. “We had a conversation, and it became evident that we shared a much higher-level understanding of what was possible, so Sinclair invested.”

The result was the creation of a very low-power consumption chip that can easily be incorporated within a mobile viewing device without substantially decreasing its battery life or increasing its physical profile.

NOT JUST FOR ATSC 3.0

Aitken said that as Saankhya had an established reputation in software-defined radio (SDR) technology, it was decided early on to create a chip that was signal agnostic, with software dictating which of a dozen or so digital TV signals it will decode, including ATSC 1.0 and the European DVB-T2 standard.

“We’re not building an ATSC 3 chip,” he said. “We’re building a chip that can go in set-top boxes, in televisions, in tablets, for any global broadcast standard, including digital radio. You level your risk by having a multistandard chip.”

Aitken says that at present about 1,000 of the chipsets have been created, and the foundry is ready to roll out millions more. Asked about takers for the free devices, he acknowledged that this has been a bit of a hard sell, but sees some light on the horizon.

“We’ve offered a major carrier five million chips. We’ve also offered the engineering of that chip into the device and we’ve offered the availability of the IP data stream, but that has not been enough to entice them to do that yet, but we are knee-deep into discussions with a USB manufacturer.”

Aitken views this as a first step to getting the chips into mobile devices, explaining that they would be part of a USB-C “dongle” equipped with an embedded antenna and designed to plug into mobile devices. And by the chip’s not being specific to ATSC 3.0, the dongle could be used virtually anywhere that digital over-the-air broadcasting is taking place.

“It would host DVB-T2, ISDB-T, ATSC 1, and other standards just by changing the software,” said Aitken. “It could be used in any part of the world.”

http://www.tvtechnology.com/atsc3/s...-0-at-ces-2019
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post #1487 of 1494 Old 01-17-2019, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by joblo View Post
Oh, no, no, no, NO! That's not how I read it...



So there are OTA-only households and OTA+SVOD households, but no SVOD-only households?!? Those just don't exist?!?

If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you. And my SVOD-only friends have bridges to sell you, too. Come to think of it, my FREE-VOD-only friends have got some bridges, too.

And if the industry doesn't even see those households??? OMG, are some folks in for a rude awakening!!!

And the fact that Nielsen is even peddling this delusion is how you KNOW that ATSC 3.0 is DOA...…
The article about the Nielsen report focused specifically on OTA TV viewership. It didn't talk about (and, as far as I know, the underlying Nielsen report didn't get into) the breakdown of non-OTA households. So there's absolutely no reason for you to conclude that Nielsen is saying that streaming-only households simply don't exist. Of course they do. But such households, as well as households that subscribe to cable TV, satellite TV, telco TV, etc. are beyond the scope of the article I cited. (FWIW, my guess is that streaming-only households -- just streaming, no OTA, no traditional pay TV -- constitute several percent of US households but definitely under 10%.)

If it's true, as Nielsen claims, that the number of OTA-viewing US households has nearly doubled in the past 8 years, I can't help but see how that's bullish for the continued survival and health of OTA TV in this country, including ATSC 3.0. It doesn't mean that ATSC 3.0 will definitely succeed but the growth of OTA viewership can only be seen as a reason to think that it might.
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post #1488 of 1494 Old 01-17-2019, 11:15 AM
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Aitken said that Sinclair will light up 26 markets by the end of 2019.

http://www.tvtechnology.com/atsc3/s...-0-at-ces-2019

Hmm, as I recall, Sinclair was on the record about a year ago saying that they would light up a similar number of ATSC 3.0 broadcasts in 2018, which obviously didn't happen. So we'll see.

Interesting to hear Aitken's views about the politics holding up the entire industry getting behind 3.0. I've always thought that support from the big 4 broadcast networks was the weakest link. Fox and (I think) CBS have made some faintly supportive noises in the past but nothing really from ABC or NBC that I can recall. His quote that "The networks will always try to extract the broadcaster from out of the middle of the relationship with the consumer" was also telling. I think the multinational corporations that own the big networks see the future of TV as direct-to-consumer streaming with no local affiliate stations serving as middle men that get a cut of the money. And if that's true, then it makes no sense for them to try to improve the existing system rather than work to further erode and replace it.
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post #1489 of 1494 Old 01-17-2019, 03:33 PM
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Siebert noted that when the United Kingdom decided to migrate from the original DVB-T (terrestrial broadcast) standard, which was struck in 1997, to an updated version, DVB-T2, which was completed in 2008, there was no “chicken and egg” situation because there was a clear commitment from the BBC for a rollout of the improved HD service via DVB-T2.
I'm not seeing that level of commitment here in the US. Not from the industry or the government. 3.0 might simply be too late, except for one country: South Korea. As it is, we could have another ATSC M/H flop in the making.

It doesn't help that we are losing so many channels on which to actually get 3.0 off the ground, especially in the biggest markets, where Land Mobile reduced the UHF pool long before the auctions.

3.0 might be written off as the best broadcast standard ever made in the world, but never to see the light of day.

What I find most curious is that Japan has not released a successor OTA standard (to my knowledge) and many countries are deploying ISDB-T(b) as new. Maybe they could use 3.0 instead.
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This is one of those should've-done-it-to-begin-with things. I feel that what we're going to end up with is a mix of 1 and 3 which will stay that way going forward, just like HD Radio's Analog and digital. 1 and 3. Take your pick.

As for bypassing the affiliate model, that's going to take a LONG time. For the math to work, you need as many people with high speed internet as you currently have people with access to streaming, OTA and MPVDs. And there's one unpredictable element: Congress. If anything, a direct-to-consumer model that eliminates the affiliate system is a 10-20 years down the road at the earliest. It's probably a better bet that the traditional networks are made irrelevant by the streamers. The day Amazon outbids FOX, NBC or CBS for Sunday NFL will be the turning point.

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post #1491 of 1494 Old 01-17-2019, 04:47 PM
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The article about the Nielsen report focused specifically on OTA TV viewership.
No, it didn't. You need to read much more carefully -- not to say downright cynically -- if you don't want to end up the very proud owner of very excellent bridges.

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OTA

Nielsen Sees Resurgence' In OTA Households


[note scare quotes around "Resurgence" --joblo]

Number of households labeled OTA has nearly doubles in the past eight years

By Tom Butts, TVTechnology.com - Jan 15, 2019

...
16 million homes—have OTA status,
...

there has been a resurgence in this type of television household.”
...
Regardless of what Nielsen labels them, they are all considered “cord cutters” or “cord nevers” by the industry.

http://www.tvtechnology.com/news/ni...ota-households
Nielsen is essentially labeling all non-MVPD households as "OTA". Labeling is not the same as viewing.

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post #1492 of 1494 Old 01-17-2019, 05:16 PM
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This is one of those should've-done-it-to-begin-with things.
Agree 100%. And to be fair, Sinclair argued strongly against 8VSB in favor of OFDM back in the 90s and they were absolutely right. But Congress, the FCC, and too many broadcasters simply wanted to translate 1950s transmission and reception infrastructure from analog to digital, failing to take into account how much MVPD service had already changed the television landscape from the consumer perspective.

Quote:
If anything, a direct-to-consumer model that eliminates the affiliate system is a 10-20 years down the road at the earliest.
I would argue at the latest rather than earliest, but I agree with the 2030s as the general time frame.

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The day Amazon outbids FOX, NBC or CBS for Sunday NFL will be the turning point.
For sure....
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Originally Posted by NashGuy View Post
Hmm, as I recall, Sinclair was on the record about a year ago saying that they would light up a similar number of ATSC 3.0 broadcasts in 2018, which obviously didn't happen. So we'll see.

Interesting to hear Aitken's views about the politics holding up the entire industry getting behind 3.0. I've always thought that support from the big 4 broadcast networks was the weakest link. Fox and (I think) CBS have made some faintly supportive noises in the past but nothing really from ABC or NBC that I can recall. His quote that "The networks will always try to extract the broadcaster from out of the middle of the relationship with the consumer" was also telling. I think the multinational corporations that own the big networks see the future of TV as direct-to-consumer streaming with no local affiliate stations serving as middle men that get a cut of the money. And if that's true, then it makes no sense for them to try to improve the existing system rather than work to further erode and replace it.
I'm sure they want to find a way to monetize it or gain additional revenue streams.

Look at the way they chop up shows. The current season will be on a cable TV network along with on demand.

But previous seasons could be on different services, either for download or streaming. Often there could be 2 seasons on Netflix and another 2 seasons on Hulu and the current season on cable.

So they want to extract every last cent for each iteration of a show and they probably consider 4K to be a different iteration, subject to higher pricing, etc.

NFL and NBA will probably want more money for regular 4K broadcasts or streams of their games. They have problems with attendance in some markets, since they've priced themselves out of reach for many fans. In LA, before they even get in a new stadium, Rams fans face $100 parking on game days. So fans are driven away from attending games in person and 4K will just give them another reason to stay away.

It doesn't look like sports will drive 4k adoption -- sales of sets as well as paying to get 4K channels -- as it did with HDTV.
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post #1494 of 1494 Old 01-19-2019, 10:57 AM
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Word on the street is the Korean government is currently pressuring one of the makers of the cheapy $40 CECBs to make one of them over there that's ATSC 3.0 compatible, sans the restrictions on the LG and Samsung boxes. The manufacturer claims it should be certified for RF emissions by the government and all that good stuff by February.

Fortunately for me, Korean television receivers are actually assigned an identifer after certification from their equivalent of the FCC, so I can just scour the daily lists of devices certified there for it until it happens

Some pictures of prototypes show the company using the LG3307 demod chip
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