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post #1 of 40 Old 03-09-2017, 12:26 PM - Thread Starter
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TVfool Down?

Is the Tvfool website down, or is it just me?

Jump to November, 2018 outage

Last edited by DrDon; 11-17-2018 at 06:48 AM.
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post #2 of 40 Old 03-09-2017, 01:50 PM
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Also down for me.....also FMFool and TVFool Forum....

Probably undergoing periodic Maintenance and/or Database Updates.....which would be a GOOD thing.....

Or their Server Host is down for Maintenance. Check back later today or more likely tomorrow...

Last edited by holl_ands; 03-09-2017 at 01:53 PM.
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post #3 of 40 Old 03-09-2017, 02:09 PM
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post #4 of 40 Old 03-09-2017, 02:21 PM
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Here's a handy tool, there are more like it out there - http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/
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post #5 of 40 Old 03-10-2017, 07:37 AM
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Down all day yesterday, and still down this morning...
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post #6 of 40 Old 03-10-2017, 11:26 AM
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It's up now.

If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
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post #7 of 40 Old 03-10-2017, 12:07 PM
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Its back up. Too bad the database still needs updating.
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post #8 of 40 Old 03-10-2017, 04:16 PM
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FYI: For when TVFool is again off-line, try [US Only] www.RabbitEars.info/search.php....or perhaps the fol. alternates....NONE of them calculate any Signal Strength or NM NUMBERS, but it's better than NOTHING:

http://www.receptionmaps.com/Advanced-TV-Maps.html [SAME AS TVFOOL.COM, goes down when TVFool goes down.]

http://www.fcc.gov/media/engineering/dtvmaps [REAL Ch number NOT Listed, although indicated Lo-VHF, Hi-VHF or UHF. Good Prediction for MY Location.]

================================================== ====
FOL. EXIST....but are NOT Recommended:

http://nocable.org [REAL Ch number NOT Listed, although lists FREQUENCY. Can't "MOVE" Rx Icon. Erroneously sez ALL GREEN...even Ch8/10 blocked by Black Mtn and 60-ft hill in my backyard and doesn't list Spanish Language Stations only 7-mi away that I DO get.]

http://www.channelmaster.com/Antenna...tion-a/134.htm [Erroneously sez I need Roof Mounted Antenna for ALL (2-Bar) Stations, whether 7-mi or 34-mi away.]

http://www.tablotv.com/tools [No REAL Ch Numbers. Erroneously sez GREEN for ALL Stations, doesn't List Stations only 7-mi away.]

http://www.antennaweb.org [Results aren't even CLOSE for My Location....as many other people have reported over the years....DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME.]

http://otadtv.com/cgi-bin/tvangle.cgi [Nice Concept with Lots of Useful Data, incl. Signal Strengths and Terrain Path Plots.....unfortunately TOTALLY BOGUS RESULTS....it shows numerous Mexican stations 34-mi away (with Terrain Blockage) at only -40 dBm vs TVFool at about -80 dBm.]

================================================== ====
Compare to www.tvfool.com Results [US and Canada]:
22-mi away are All GREEN [I get], 7-mi away are All YELLOW [I get], 14-mi away are YELLOW ("Sees" Black Mtn, but NOT the Hill in my backyard which completely blocks Ch8/10) and 34+ mi away in Mexico are RED [NO-GO].

And http://www.rabbitears.info/search.php Results [US ONLY]
[Provide complete Address & Check SIGNAL STRENGTH Box]:
4 of 9 stations 22-mi away are GREEN plus 1 YELLOW [I get FIVE], all 7-mi away are RED [I get], 2 stations 14-mi away are YELLOW [but I do NOT get due to local blockage] and stations 34+ mi away in Mexico are NOT Listed [I do NOT get].

So the ONLY website that even comes CLOSE is RabbitEars....

Last edited by holl_ands; 11-23-2018 at 05:06 PM.
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post #9 of 40 Old 03-10-2017, 05:02 PM
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There's a search on RabbitEars.info, also. Strength Search must be checked.

http://www.rabbitears.info/search.php
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post #10 of 40 Old 03-11-2017, 12:32 PM
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I was very UNIMPRESSED when I tried my location in http://www.rabbitears.info/search.php

Although I entered my precise Address, it didn't deliver the requested optional Signal Level Calculation [dBm]. All Stations are listed in ALTERNATING BLUE and NO Highlight Colors with FIVE Stations Highlighted in YELLOW: Ch7/8/10 that are blocked by Black Mtn and the 60-ft Hill in my back yard, Ch9 from Palm Desert [impossibly blocked by Mt Palomar] and only the Low Power (0.275 kW) Ch9 Spanish Language Station on Mt Miguel but NOT any of the EIGHT (incl High Power FOX, NBC, PBS & KUSI that I DO get). So the COLORS make NO SENSE. The stations are listed in RANDOM order...NOT by either Channel Number or Distance....and the YELLOW Highlighted stations occur (not quite) every OTHER line towards the top the first time I ran it and towards the bottom the second time [Huh????] So it succeeds in providing a LIST with Range and Direction....and not much else.
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post #11 of 40 Old 03-11-2017, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
So the ONLY website that even comes CLOSE is the FCC's....
I agree, 2nd best after tvfool.
Quote:
NONE of them calculate any Signal Strength or NM NUMBERS, but it's better than NOTHING:
The FCC site shows dBm power and transmitter azimuth when you click on a callsign. NM can be calculated by adding 90.9 to dBm power.

Trip in VA, who runs rabbitears.info, admits that tvfool is more accurate. I was able to get dBm readings, listed in order of decreasing strength, from rabbitears.info only when I checked the proper boxes and WAITED for the results, but that feature seems to be disabled now. The channel list is more up-to-date than tvfool, and it gives sub channels, but the signal powers were off.

If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 03-11-2017 at 01:24 PM.
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post #12 of 40 Old 03-11-2017, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
Trip in VA, who runs rabbitears.info, admits that tvfool is more accurate. I was able to get dBm readings, listed in order of decreasing strength, from rabbitears.info only when I checked the proper boxes and WAITED for the results, but that feature seems to be disabled now. The channel list is more up-to-date than tvfool, and it gives sub channels, but the signal powers were off.
Wow, I wasn't aware that it was broken, but indeed, it's not working right now. I'm going to try to poke at it tonight but may not find time to actually fix it for a while.

- Trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

RabbitEars

"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

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post #13 of 40 Old 03-11-2017, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
Trip in VA, who runs rabbitears.info, admits that tvfool is more accurate. I was able to get dBm readings, listed in order of decreasing strength, from rabbitears.info only when I checked the proper boxes and WAITED for the results, but that feature seems to be disabled now. The channel list is more up-to-date than tvfool, and it gives sub channels, but the signal powers were off.
Okay, so apparently the problem is that the code that queries Google for coordinates based on a street address is not functioning. If you manually input coordinates into the web address, it works as it should, see here for an example where I used 39 N 77 W as my coordinates: http://www.rabbitears.info/search.p...=dBm&height=15

I'm not sure how to fix it off-hand. I tried a fix that worked on the maps when they broke a while back, and it didn't help. I'm going to have to delve into it at a later time.

- Trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

RabbitEars

"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

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post #14 of 40 Old 03-11-2017, 06:28 PM
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Thanks Trip. I was wondering how to enter coordinates in your search page; you just taught me.

This is what I did for one of my antenna test sites:

rabbitears report:
http://www.rabbitears.info/search.p...=dBm&height=10

tvfool report:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e6a446abfa3d6d

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post #15 of 40 Old 03-11-2017, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
I agree, 2nd best after tvfool.
The FCC site shows dBm power and transmitter azimuth when you click on a callsign. NM can be calculated by adding 90.9 to dBm power.

Trip in VA, who runs rabbitears.info, admits that tvfool is more accurate. I was able to get dBm readings, listed in order of decreasing strength, from rabbitears.info only when I checked the proper boxes and WAITED for the results, but that feature seems to be disabled now. The channel list is more up-to-date than tvfool, and it gives sub channels, but the signal powers were off.
In my location in MA, about 3 miles south of the Needham towers, the FCC site is more accurate than the others in relation to some Providence channels. In particular, the FCC site correctly shows WLWC to be at -64dBm, about the same level as WLNE, WJAR, etc., while TV Fool shows WLWC at -92 dBm. It may be partially related to differences in calculating 2-edge signal strength.
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post #16 of 40 Old 03-12-2017, 09:50 AM
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Surprisingly the FCC site works here in the Toronto area. However it does not list any of the Canadian broadcasters and lists only the stronger stations in the Buffalo area.
TV Fool lists all the local and US stations as well as many that can only be viewed during tropo events.
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post #17 of 40 Old 03-13-2017, 04:55 PM
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Rabbitears.Info Website NOW WORKS to calculate and include dBm Signal Levels in the LIST of Stations within the Max Search Range:
http://www.rabbitears.info/search.php

Unfortunately it doesn't SAY what are the assumed Antenna Gains in each TV Band (0 dBi or 0 dbd [like TVFool]??? Or perhaps 3 dB HIGHER as indicated by the LOS Results???) and System Noise Figure (0 dB? Or a more realistic 4 dB with Preamp and maybe 10++ dB without???)

It would be useful if there were Entry Blocks for Antenna Gains (even if a single value for each TV Band...or alternatively enter Antenna Gain for 470 and 698 MHz and then do straight line approximation) and System Noise Figure (could get elaborate if include Preamp Gain and Cable/Splitter Length/Losses to do the calculations...I think TVFool assumes about 6 dB for a DIRECT connected Tuner NF).

However, for MY Location, all LOS dBm calculations are about 1-4 dB [avg 2.5 dB] higher than my TVFool numbers [for same 25-ft Antenna Height]. BTW: With 15-ft high Test Antennas, Attic 8-Bay, Adaptive Antennas or Amplified RabbitEars-Loop, I only get the strongest FOUR LOS Channels...plus some Spanish Language Channels 6.7-miles away.

Most of the above Propagation Prediction Programs cited above have a hard time with predicting Stations that I get from a nearby HILL using Rabbit-Ears (only 100-m higher than me). Although only 6.7-miles away, it is NOT LOS due to other Hills being in the way, broadcasting mostly Spanish Language Stations:
They agree on Ch7 "Fair" (1Edge), TVFool predicts -69.6 dBm, but four other "Fair" (2Edge) Stations are estimated to be 7 to 14 dB STRONGER than TVFool.
For Ch26 (KVSD) (1Edge), TVFool predicts -51.0 dbm, but RabbitEars.Info calculates a MUCH lower -95.0 dBm...NOT even CLOSE.
For Ch36 (KSKT/KUAN, also 7-mi (1Edge) away, TVFool predicts -75.6 dBm, but RabbitEars.Info calculates MUCH lower -118.9 dB....NOT even CLOSE.

Ch23 (XETV) carries THE CW, TVFool predicts -88.7 dBm, but RabbitEars.Info calculates a MUCH lower -153.0 dBm. [People on Mesa above me get it.]

So for NOW, I'm sticking with ONLY recommending TVFool......

My TVFool Results (25-Ft):
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e6a4f4356a98b0




My rabbitears.info Results (25-Ft): [Unfortunately, the Compass Plot and Weblink included by STREET ADDRESS, rather than a randomized index number.]
[Sorry: I edited a little, but Formatting looks a bit better when COPY/PASTE into WORDPAD.]
Code:
Channel
CallsignNetworkCityStateTransmitter
Distance (Miles)DirectionSignal Strength (dBm)Signal Path
69‑1 (19)          KSWB-TV               FOX          SAN DIEGO          CA          22          156°          -30.93  Good LOS                 
 39‑1 (40)          KNSD                     NBC          SAN DIEGO          CA          22          156°          -32.38  Good LOS                 
15‑1 (30)          KPBS                       PBS           SAN DIEGO          CA          22          156°          -32.41  Good LOS                 
51‑1 (18)          KUSI-TV                  IND          SAN DIEGO          CA          22          156°          -32.64  Good LOS                 
  9‑1 (9)           KSDX-LD          ESTRELLA     SAN DIEGO          CA         22          156°          -52.96  Fair LOS                 
  8‑1 (8)           KFMB-TV                 CBS          SAN DIEGO          CA         14          221°          -57.07  Fair 2Edge                 
10‑1 (10)          KGTV                      ABC          SAN DIEGO          CA         14          221°          -58.23  Fair 2Edge                 
  7‑1 (7)           KZTC-LP                                    SAN DIEGO          CA           7            80°          -64.36  Fair 1Edge                 
33‑1 (34)          XHAS-TDT             TLM          Tijuana                   BN          34          175°          -74.53  Fair 1Edge                 
57‑1 (22)          XHUAA-TDT          XEW          TIJUANA             BN          34          175°          -74.96  Fair 2Edge                 
  6‑1 (23)          XETV-TDT       CW/CANAL 5  Tijuana                 BN          34          175°          -75.21  Poor 2Edge                 
  3‑1 (33)          XHCTTI-TDT        IMAGEN     Tijuana                 BN          34          175°          -75.47  Poor 1Edge                 
21‑1 (29)          XHTIT-TDT          SIETE          TIJUANA             BN          34          175°          -76.21  Poor 1Edge                 
  1‑1 (28)          XHJK-TDT          AZ13/PR40   Tijuana                  BN          34          175°          -76.84  Poor 1Edge                 
12‑1 (32)          XEWT-TDT          TELEVISA  TIJUANA              BN          34          175°          -77.36  Poor 2Edge                 
49‑1 (47)          XHDTV-TDT  MY/MUNDOFOX   Tecate             BN          53          152°          -84.38  Poor 1Edge                 
45‑1 (44)          XHBJ-TDT            GALA          Tijuana                 BN          34          175°          -85.40  Poor 2Edge                 
41‑1 (39)          KZSD-LP                                    SAN DIEGO       CA          22          157°          -86.10  Poor LOS                 
50‑1 (50)          KSDY-LD                                   SAN DIEGO       CA          22          157°          -86.94  Poor LOS                 
43‑1 (42)          KSEX-CD                                   SAN DIEGO       CA          22          157°          -87.17  Poor LOS                 
36‑1 (51)          KDTF-LD                FUT           SAN DIEGO       CA          22          157°          -87.93  Poor LOS                 
26‑1 (26)          KVSD-LD                                  SAN DIEGO       CA            7            80°          -88.56  Poor 1Edge                 
11‑1 (46)          XHTJB-TDT          ONCE         Tijuana                BN          37          163°          -89.54  Poor 1Edge                 
21‑1 (29)          XHTIT-TDT                               TIJUANA           BC          32          181°          -93.01  Poor 1Edge                 
17‑1 (25)          KBNT-CD                 UNI          SAN DIEGO      CA          14          221°          -94.41  Poor 2Edge                 
  1‑1 (28)          XHJK-TDT       AZ13/PR40      Tijuana               BN          35          179°          -101.27 Bad 2Edge                 
36‑1 (36)          KSKT-CD                             SAN MARCOS       CA           7            80°          -112.31 Bad 1Edge                 
18‑1 (36)          KUAN-LD                           POWAY, ETC.          CA           7            80°          -112.31 Bad 1Edge                 
  6‑1 (23)          XETV-TDT   CW/CANAL 5     Tijuana               BN         40          137°          -112.43 Bad 1Edge                 
21‑1 (29)          XHTIT-TDT            CERRO COLORADO         BC          37          163°          -113.83 Bad 2Edge                 
35‑1 (35)          K35DG-D                                   LA JOLLA        CA         14          221°          -114.23 Bad 2Edge                 
  1‑1 (28)          XHJK-TDT    AZ13/PR40         Tijuana              BN          40          137°          -124.75 Bad 1Edge                 
  1‑1 (28)          XHJK-TDT    AZ13/PR40         Tijuana              BN          38          174°          -124.98 Bad 1Edge                 
57‑1 (22)          XHUAA-TDT                           TIJUANA          BC          36          160°          -153.05 Bad 2Edge                 
  6‑1 (23)          XETV-TDT   CW/CANAL 5    Tijuana              BN          36          160°          -153.24 Bad 2Edge                 
12‑1 (32)          XEWT-TDT                              TIJUANA          BC          36          160°          -154.93 Bad 2Edge                 
21‑1 (21)          KDUG-LD                                San Diego          CA          15              6°          -175.92 Bad 2Edge                 
57‑1 (22)          XHUAA-TDT                          TIJUANA           BC          38          174°          -176.24 Bad 2Edge                 
  6‑1 (23)          XETV-TDT    CW/CANAL 5  Tijuana               BN          38          174°          -176.43 Bad 2Edge                 
24‑1 (9)           K09XW-D               PALM DESERT, ETC.        CA          52            42°          -178.05 Bad 2Edge                 
12‑1 (32)          XEWT-TDT                             TIJUANA          BC          38          174°          -178.08 Bad 2Edge

Last edited by holl_ands; 03-15-2017 at 12:07 PM.
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post #18 of 40 Old 03-14-2017, 02:07 PM
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My FCC Results [No Way to Enter Antenna Height....perhaps 25-ft???]:

No specific dBm Signal Level, but is in General Agreement with TVFool Results, noting that
NONE of the programs use sufficiently detailed TOPO Database to resolve 60-ft Hill in my
Back Yard that BLOCKS Ch8/10 at 15-ft Max Height that I've been able to try [so Unknown at 25-ft]:
http://www.fcc.gov/media/engineering/dtvmaps

HOWEVER, it does NOT include Spanish Language Stations 6.7-mi away [incl KVSD on Ch26]
and strangely INCLUDES (Weak) KVCR (24-1) ALSO on Ch26...from 58-miles North of Me,
which would be BLOCKED by my local Ch26. BTW: ONCE, prior to Local Ch26 firing up,
I received KVCR intermittently from the BACK YARD using R-S Hoverman on 15-ft Pole.
KVCR (PBS) Transmitter is located on a Mountain Just East of Riverside, CA.

Also note that it does NOT include any MEXICAN Stations....and maybe NOT Canadian either.

BTW: To "see" dBm Signal Strength, Distance and Line-Of-Bearing, sequentially Click/Cancel on EACH Call Sign, rather than being
conveniently included in the List....which is MISSING REAL Channel Numbers....Whoever DID the website, NEVER dealt with OTA!!!
After click on Call Sign, click on "GAIN/LOSS Map" to see Coverage Before/After Digital Transition (KVCR is shown below, I am
right on the outer, solid line, located just to Right of "CA-50").

For "Strong" LOS Stations, Signal Strength is about 3 dB LOWER than TVFool, whereas "Moderate" Ch8/10 is about 3 dB WEAKER.
For "Weak" KVCR, Signal Strength is -86 dBm, whereas TVFOol is -92.8 dBm or about 7 dB WEAKER.

TV Stations Coverage
Callsign Network Virtual Band

Strong Signal KSWB FOX 69-1 UHF
Strong Signal KPBS PBS 15-1 UHF
Strong Signal KUSI IND 51-1 UHF
Strong Signal KNSD NBC 39-1 UHF

Moderate KFMB CBS 8-1 Hi-V
Moderate KGTV ABC 10-1 Hi-V

Weak Signal KVCR PBS 24-1 UHF

No Signal KVMD IND 31-1 UHF
No Signal KTTV FOX 11-1 Hi-V
No Signal KABC ABC 7-1 Hi-V
No Signal KCOP MYTV 13-1 Hi-V
No Signal KBEH MTV-TR3S 63-1 UHF
No Signal KNBC NBC 4-1 UHF
No Signal KCAL IND 9-1 Hi-V


Last edited by holl_ands; 03-15-2017 at 12:09 PM.
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post #19 of 40 Old 11-16-2018, 04:50 PM
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TVFool.com down (Nov. 2018)

Yes, many of us are realizing that the TVFool.com site has been down again, for at least 24 hours.


Yes, I chose to bump this thread--I wish I could have changed the title to remove the (back up, now) portion...maybe I just don't know how.




I really liked holl_ands post above (#8), as it provides some valid alternatives. I've quoted it just below this text, so that all links are in this entry. I'll offer some updates from my recent observations:


* receptionmaps_com: Holl_ands speculated correctly that this site is the same as TVFOOL.COM, as the link currently doesn't provide the location input fields. Hence my avoidance in this sentence of correctly citing the url address, since there's no sense clicking through to it.


* http://www.fcc.gov/media/engineering/dtvmaps : This one's definitely a good alternative/companion to tvfool. Plus, it has more information than it did a year ago. But, it takes clicking on each station's call letters to see the RF value that was lacking previously. The biggest addition that I've noticed is that now Digital Class A entries are included. Not there though are other digital LPTVs, Translators, and (gasp!) the few remaining analog LPTVs. To answer one thought in this thread, this FCC page now notes that 30 feet above ground level is being assumed. (Didn't I read that Trip from rabbitears_info and employed at the FCC recently joined the team for this site? But I digress....)


* http://www.rabbitears.info/search.php : Trip and the all-volunteer team keep this site humming along with prompt updates and features. I'm really liking the addition of the Post-Repack Search within the Address Search function of the link provided. Not sure when it'll graduate from (Under construction). It does include all digital LPTVs and Translators. No Canadian entries, per my observations of comparing past tvfool estimates to ones from this site (based upon friends and acquaintances in Michigan). No analog either, and Trip graciously explained in a post that the website came about for the digital transition, and thus hasn't ever intended on including those stragglers in much of its scope; hence not within the Address Search data.


* http://otadtv.com/tvtower/index.html : As mentioned, the Signal Percent and Signal Power values aren't very valid. Seems others have posted that the site fails to consider the curvature of the Earth. Yet, I've found I like the sortable columns. By sorting on the Angle Degrees heading, one can get a better sense of how many towers are clustered in each compass direction. Another useful sort that I tend to do is on RF Ch Callsign, as that helps one readily identify Lo-VHF, Hi-VHF, and UHF needs. The granularity of distance (in increments of 5) can help with trying to use this site as a companion to estimates and information from the other referenced sites.


Lastly, if the one man (or perhaps a few more) team over at TVFool.com happens to see this post, please realize how grateful we are for your efforts with that site! We miss it at times like this, and would like to know how we can help you if there's a need. My hope is that it'll be back online soon...and maybe even with an updated database.


Cheers!
Statmanmi

Quote:
Originally Posted by holl_ands View Post
FYI: For when TVFool is again off-line, try fol. alternates....NONE of them calculate any Signal Strength or NM NUMBERS, but it's better than NOTHING:

http://www.receptionmaps.com/Advanced-TV-Maps.html [SAME AS TVFOOL.COM, don't know if they go down when TVFool goes down.]

http://www.fcc.gov/media/engineering/dtvmaps [REAL Ch number NOT Listed, although indicated Lo-VHF, Hi-VHF or UHF. Good Prediction for MY Location.]


================================================== ====
FOL. EXIST....but are NOT Recommended:

http://nocable.org [REAL Ch number NOT Listed, although lists FREQUENCY. Can't "MOVE" Rx Icon. Erroneously sez ALL GREEN...even Ch8/10 blocked by Black Mtn and 60-ft hill in my backyard and doesn't list Spanish Language Stations only 7-mi away that I DO get.]

http://www.channelmaster.com/Antenna...tion-a/134.htm [Erroneously sez I need Roof Mounted Antenna for ALL (2-Bar) Stations, whether 7-mi or 34-mi away.]

http://www.tablotv.com/tools [No REAL Ch Numbers. Erroneously sez GREEN for ALL Stations, doesn't List Stations only 7-mi away.]

http://www.antennaweb.org [Results aren't even CLOSE for My Location....as many other people have reported over the years....DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME.]

http://otadtv.com/cgi-bin/tvangle.cgi [Nice Concept with Lots of Useful Data, incl. Signal Strengths and Terrain Path Plots.....unfortunately TOTALLY BOGUS RESULTS....it shows numerous Mexican stations 34-mi away (with Terrain Blockage) at only -40 dBm vs TVFool at about -80 dBm.]

================================================== ====
Compared to www.tvfool.com Results:
22-mi away are All GREEN [I get], 7-mi away are All YELLOW [I get], 14-mi away are YELLOW ("Sees" Black Mtn, but NOT the Hill in my backyard which completely blocks Ch8/10) and 34+ mi away in Mexico are RED [NO-GO].

So the ONLY website that even comes CLOSE is the FCC's....
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Last edited by statmanmi; 11-16-2018 at 04:58 PM. Reason: Some sentences too wordy.
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post #20 of 40 Old 11-17-2018, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
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I wish I could have changed the title to remove the (back up, now) portion...maybe I just don't know how.
If only there were a moderator or someone listed at the bottom of the section you could contact directly

Seriously, PM me anytime. If I'm not knee deep in a football game or approaching a three-figure bar tab, I'm happy to do it.

You can also use the Report Post button. We're actually happy when an RP comes in that's as simple as this. Wish all the RPs were misspellings, thread moves and so forth.

I'll try to check, but feel free to PM me if and when TVFool comes back up.

I've also added a link to the first post to jump to your post.
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post #21 of 40 Old 11-17-2018, 07:11 AM
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It seems to be back up now (8:11 CST)
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post #22 of 40 Old 11-17-2018, 07:52 AM
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Yeah, and just at that time. As I was writing my post above yours, I kept trying to generate a report to no avail. Site came up, but wouldn't run a report.

The big question.. is the database still wonky?

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Appears to be back up but is still using the database from Jan 29 2018.
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post #24 of 40 Old 11-17-2018, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by statmanmi View Post
* http://www.fcc.gov/media/engineering/dtvmaps : This one's definitely a good alternative/companion to tvfool. Plus, it has more information than it did a year ago. But, it takes clicking on each station's call letters to see the RF value that was lacking previously. The biggest addition that I've noticed is that now Digital Class A entries are included. Not there though are other digital LPTVs, Translators, and (gasp!) the few remaining analog LPTVs. To answer one thought in this thread, this FCC page now notes that 30 feet above ground level is being assumed. (Didn't I read that Trip from rabbitears_info and employed at the FCC recently joined the team for this site? But I digress....)
Yes, I work for the FCC. The TVStudy software that I maintain is used for the DTV Maps now, but the results are all pre-calculated. That is, when you put in a location, it chooses the nearest pre-calculated point and returns the results for that point. In relatively flat terrain, it should work fine, but in very rough terrain, it may not be good enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by statmanmi View Post
* http://www.rabbitears.info/search.php : Trip and the all-volunteer team keep this site humming along with prompt updates and features. I'm really liking the addition of the Post-Repack Search within the Address Search function of the link provided. Not sure when it'll graduate from (Under construction).
When I get around to flagging a "Post Repack" record for every station nation-wide. There are large areas of the country where no such records are flagged and no result will be returned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by statmanmi View Post
It does include all digital LPTVs and Translators. No Canadian entries, per my observations of comparing past tvfool estimates to ones from this site (based upon friends and acquaintances in Michigan). No analog either, and Trip graciously explained in a post that the website came about for the digital transition, and thus hasn't ever intended on including those stragglers in much of its scope; hence not within the Address Search data.
Canada and Mexico will come when I get those records moved from the CDBS format into the LMS format. The search is pulling directly from the LMS technical records, so as soon as the Canadian and Mexican stations get added, they'll come right up in the search.

I have a really long to-do list and basically no time to do it in.

- Trip
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post #25 of 40 Old 11-23-2018, 03:19 PM
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It's been down again since yesterday.
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post #26 of 40 Old 11-23-2018, 05:41 PM
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It's been down again since yesterday.
The server is alive because it replies to a port 443 TCP connection - but that is all it does.
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post #27 of 40 Old 11-24-2018, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
Yes, I work for the FCC. The TVStudy software that I maintain is used for the DTV Maps now, but the results are all pre-calculated. That is, when you put in a location, it chooses the nearest pre-calculated point and returns the results for that point. In relatively flat terrain, it should work fine, but in very rough terrain, it may not be good enough.
Could you elaborate on that? For example, how large are the precalculated cells into which geocoded location are assigned?
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post #28 of 40 Old 11-24-2018, 01:35 PM
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Could you elaborate on that? For example, how large are the precalculated cells into which geocoded location are assigned?
I'm actually not sure how big they are. I just went hunting for the e-mail about it; I found the one where I recommended a cell size smaller than the default 2 km, with examples such as 1 km or 0.5 km, but cannot find the e-mail confirming the value used. I've sent an e-mail inquiring and will follow up.

I'm glad to elaborate further; what questions do you have?

- Trip

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post #29 of 40 Old 11-24-2018, 06:42 PM
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Cell size was my initial and primary concern.

However, is there a reason they moved to using dbuv/m for the calculated Rx signal strength value instead of dBm as the previous version used? I need a primer on how to correlate the two numbers.


BTW, the Fool was back up when I checked it a few minutes ago. Seemed a lot snappier than I remember seeing for quite some time. Maybe he upgraded his server hardware... Same crappy database, though.
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post #30 of 40 Old 11-24-2018, 08:13 PM
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Why dBµV/m instead of dBm for a report

The TVStudy software uses dBuV/m (dB microvolts per meter, dBu for short) to be consistent with an FCC coverage survey. The unit dBuV/m is a measurement of the field strength (AKA field intensity) of the transmitted signal just before it touches the receiving antenna. The unit dBm is the signal power at the output terminals of the receiving antenna.

Also, using the TVStudy software to calculate the list of channels in decreasing order of strength in dBuV/m instead of dBm is more rapid, which reduces the load on the servers for rabbitears.info and FCC DTV maps.

There is no direct conversion between dBuV/m and dBm, like the conversion factor 48.75 between dBm and dBmV, because the unit dBuV/m is frequency dependent. That is, it includes an antenna factor for the frequency involved.

http://www.atdi.co.uk/wp-content/up...CS-Telecom.pdf

http://urgentcomm.com/2009/06/01/good-to-know/

I'm not going to worry about the conversion. As is usual with the units dBm and dBmV we are familiar with, more is better. Trip gives a rule-of-thumb for a conversion in the next post.

If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 11-25-2018 at 02:35 PM.
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