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post #1 of 83 Old 04-07-2018, 06:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello,
I am currently using a Mohu Sky 60 - actually it is the AmazonBasics (PBH-50046) knock off of it. It is mounted on the outside of the house at 18'. I am using a Tivo Premier for my receiver. I might split it to second TV later. I was going to include mytvfool report but I dont have enough posts. My zip is 56152.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...903863608099a4

The antenna has to be pointed towards Mankato. For being Omnidirectional it's pretty directional.
I can currently get CBS 12.1,FOX 12.2,PBS 20.1.2.3.4.5,ABC 43.1 and 3AB. Those channels all come in at signal strength of 65 to 99. I would really like to get NBC.

I could go about 10' higher but I would have to move about 15' further west.

Any ideas?
Tom

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post #2 of 83 Old 04-07-2018, 06:29 PM
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For being Omnidirectional it's pretty directional.
That's because it ain't omnidirectional, it's bi-directional. Mohu doesn't even know what their own antenna represents.

Send your TVFool link to the moderator, Dr Don, and he will add it to your post. Without it, there isn't much anyone can do.
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post #3 of 83 Old 04-08-2018, 11:40 AM
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post #4 of 83 Old 04-08-2018, 12:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you Dr Don!
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post #5 of 83 Old 04-08-2018, 01:55 PM
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What real (physical) channel is NBC on?
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post #6 of 83 Old 04-08-2018, 02:56 PM
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Should be on K21DG-D.

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post #7 of 83 Old 04-08-2018, 03:32 PM - Thread Starter
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The closest would be chan 21 in St James. I was able to get chan 11 (NBC - KARE) on a winter day with a Mohu Leaf precisely placed in my window. If a car went by I would lose signal.
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post #8 of 83 Old 04-08-2018, 05:17 PM
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Hello BrushApe

Here is a report from rabbitears.info. You should be able to get NBC on K21DG, which is a translator for KARE.



http://www.rabbitears.info/market.p...callsign=K21DG

If you are not getting it, maybe you need a different antenna or a different antenna location. Your antenna:
http://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-.../dp/B01IN2777A

Are there any trees or other buildings in the signal path?
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post #9 of 83 Old 04-08-2018, 06:16 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't know if there are any buildings. It's farm country so there may be some silos in the path. There are quite a few trees but they are probably 40' to 50' away from the antenna. The bad thing is trees are mostly black walnut so they are quite dense.

A person who is a satellite TV installer recommended going with a HDB91X and a preamp. I would be ok with this setup but the wife would not. She doesn't appreciate beauty the same way I do. I had a hard time convincing her the Amazonbasics antenna wasn't too visually obtrusive.
Tom

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post #10 of 83 Old 04-09-2018, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by BrushApe View Post
I don't know if there are any buildings. It's farm country so there may be some silos in the path. There are quite a few trees but they are probably 40' to 50' away from the antenna. The bad thing is trees are mostly black walnut so they are quite dense.

A person who is a satellite TV installer recommended going with a HDB91X and a preamp. I would be ok with this setup but the wife would not. She doesn't appreciate beauty the same way I do. I had a hard time convincing her the Amazonbasics antenna wasn't too visually obtrusive.
Tom

If your antenna is pointed into dense trees 40-50' away they're almost guaranteed to cause multipath problems. There's no antenna that can fix this. The antenna needs to clear the trees. Sometimes going under the trees works but it looks like you have plenty of houses in the way at low elevation. If the antenna has to meet the WAF (wife acceptance factor) then that just means you're not serious about OTA. We run into that frequently here. Your location dictates what antenna you need, not artificially constructed aesthetic considerations. You should stick with cable or satellite.
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post #11 of 83 Old 04-09-2018, 10:26 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm serious about OTA. I'm just more serious about staying on the wifes good side. The town is small enough where there is no cable service. I'm OK with the channels I can get. I would just like to add NBC if possible without losing what I do have.
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post #12 of 83 Old 04-09-2018, 01:22 PM
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I would certainly try the antenna you have up higher. You are using an antenna that has low gain and very poor rejection of multipath. Even in strong signal areas these produce unpredictable results. All of your channels except KEYC are UHF so about the smallest antenna that you could try would be one of the ones mentioned here http://01900888.com/forum/25-hdt...r-antenna.html I think I would recommend something like one of these though http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.as...UaAog2EALw_wcB
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post #13 of 83 Old 04-09-2018, 02:22 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't think multipath is much of a problem here. The low gain is a problem though. I think I bought into Mohus hype rather than doing extensive research. I may rethink it. The wife might be OK with the HDB4X like you linked to.
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post #14 of 83 Old 04-10-2018, 04:55 AM
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I don't think multipath is much of a problem here. The low gain is a problem though.
Any time the signal path is blocked, multi-path is usually the result. Low-gain antennas generally have low directivity which causes most or all of the multiple path signals to arrive at the antenna at relatively full signal strength since the wide signal pickup path has no ability to focus on any of those signals. The resulting signal is a mess at the tuner's input and when the mess exceeds the tuner's capabilities to sort it out, reception fails.

A higher gain antenna can help somewhat due to its increased directivity, but any antenna installation behind trees is going to be subject to the ill effects of the trees to some degree.
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post #15 of 83 Old 04-10-2018, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm going to try and change antennas and the mounting position about 10' higher. I'm thinking of going with a Clearstream-2V antenna and for a pre-amp either a RCA TVPRAMP1Z or a Winegard LNA-200. Also would a Clearstream C4 pick up the high VHF frequencies (chan 12) or would I need to add a VHF kit to the antenna? Both of these antennas are available locally. Any opinions or ideas? Thanks Tom

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post #16 of 83 Old 04-10-2018, 04:11 PM
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I would get the GE 29884 antenna from walmart... $40, and it surpasses several much larger and more expensive antennas in performance... Its a wonderful antenna, its small and light, and I used it to get deep fringe reception.. Your very weakest signals are the same power as my most powerful signals, and mine are all 2 edge,not LOS, and that little GE was pulling them out of the air solid and strog on most with no dropouts once I got it dialed in... I was getting UHF stations and High VHF stations 75 miles away, steady and strong with a small cheap $8.95 indoor signal booster, and then went to a RCA outdoor preamp and the signal was even better... I replaced the little GE with big separate powerful VHF and UHF antennas, and got some added signal strength, but that GE was surprisingly competitive with my large upgrade system.. its also very close to omnidirectional.. I used to get a LOT of clear stations on the sides and back from that thing.. Great little unit that few in its size and price range can touch, and no need to add on a VHF dipole... I think it will outperform the little CS 2V.. Just my opinion.. It would work great in your area . bob
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post #17 of 83 Old 04-11-2018, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Are your sure you're not a salesperson for GE? I haven't heard of that before but I did a little research and most seem to like it. I might give that a try. My Tvfool report looks to me that many channels shouldn't be a problem. I think when the Dish installer recommended the HDB91X and a preamp he wanted to have the best chance at working. I just don't know if I want/need something that large.
Tom
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post #18 of 83 Old 04-11-2018, 11:21 PM
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Sorry I didn't see this earlier but welcome from another southern Minnesotan

I guess I would ask this...You already have access to 3 of the Big 4 + PBS. Do you just want to get maybe NBC and a couple extra stations from the Godahl tower or do you want to try and get all of them? Reason I ask is this. While you do have line of site to Godahl keep in mind you're 35 miles away and we're working with low powered translators. Most are around 2,000 watts. So the signal will go kaput the further you are away.

I can use a real life example of picking those stations up. I've taken a 2 bay antenna in the parking lot of MSU Mankato (30 miles away) and the easiest stations to pick up are 30, 21 and 26.
30 maps to 5-1 and is the easiest because unlike the other stations that are at 2,000 watts, RF30 is at 12,000 watts. So unless you want Heroes and Icons its kinda a moot point as you already get ABC via KRWF. If I recall you also get 45tv (43-2) and MeTV (43-3) on KRWF.
21 maps to 11 but note it actually maps to 11-4 through assume 11-7 (KARE is 11-4, WXNation 11-5, Justice 11-6 and assume Quest 11-7). This is due to folks in the Jackson area (where there is another translator farm) picking up KELO which is also on 11-1. Some TV's can't map more than one PSIP so if it picked up the translator farm and KELO their TV would freak out.
26 maps to 2-1 for PBS (KTCA)
34 maps to 9-1 for KMSP FOX 9, Fox 9+ and Movies!. I know its a redundant FOX as KEYC has FOX also but KEYC's FOX is kinda bitstarved so you'll see smearing on fast motion (I get KEYC all the time so I've seen it mainly on sports but even some programs).

a 4 bay antenna would work well outside but to get KEYC you would want VHF too. I noticed there wasn't really any home supply shop (Menards, Fleet Farm, Lowes, Home Depot) near you but one antenna I used when I lived in suburban Minneapolis was this one
http://www.lowes.com/pd/RCA-Outdoor...nna/1000329229

What I would do is when you get an antenna try it without the pre-amp. You can always add one later. The RCA TVPRAMP1Z one you mentioned above has been suggested numerous times by folks. I have one myself (actually two...one at home and one at the lake house on Mille Lacs)

Quote:
A person who is a satellite TV installer recommended going with a HDB91X and a preamp
That would work but it is a big antenna. They do have some smaller yagi antennas that do work for this example
http://www.newark.com/stellar-labs/3...979?st=antenna
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post #19 of 83 Old 04-12-2018, 09:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi
Thanks for the welcome. I don't know if I'm a true southern MN person yet. I'm still in the process of moving (very slowly) from eastern SD to MN. I do have a MN DL though.

I see you are from the valley of the Jolly Green Giant. Have you made a pilgrimage to see the statue? When my kids were younger we would occasionally stop there so we could take their picture.

I am a little confused. I get ABC on 27 but don't see able subchannels. I can get 30 most of time but pixelated, 34 occasionally bet very pixelated, 21 never, and 45 TBN always and never piexlated. If they are all using the same antenna and some that work have the same power as some that don't what am I missing. I know there are some difference in cabling loss and TX antenna efficiency but I didn't think the difference would be that great. I'm thinking that if I can get some chans off the Godahl tower maybe if I get something better than the Mohu I could get NBC since it is off that tower.
Tom
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Originally Posted by BrushApe View Post
Are your sure you're not a salesperson for GE? I haven't heard of that before but I did a little research and most seem to like it. I might give that a try. My Tvfool report looks to me that many channels shouldn't be a problem. I think when the Dish installer recommended the HDB91X and a preamp he wanted to have the best chance at working. I just don't know if I want/need something that large.
Tom
No, I don't even LIKE GE to be honest.. However, the antenna is a winner.. Might be something to do with the curved reflector, but it was outstanding from the first day I put it up... To get a bit more gain, I had to go to 2 separate antennas, each 4 times the size of the little GE.. yes I got better signal strength, but with a higher mast and probably 6 times the weight on the roof ,..
I was getting stations in solid with no drop outs that TVFool showed had NM figures of -12- to -16.5..
It was and is a great performer.. I took it down, but its now in my truck on a short mast, and I check on what signals are in the far flung reaches of my very hilly rocky terrain.. It picks up UHF clearly from 80+ miles with no booster only 8 feet AGL...
Over the decades, I have found it to be the best antenna for its size I have personally ever used, and I have used a bunch of them.. Just passing on what I have experienced. bob
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post #21 of 83 Old 04-12-2018, 12:02 PM
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Hi
I see you are from the valley of the Jolly Green Giant. Have you made a pilgrimage to see the statue? When my kids were younger we would occasionally stop there so we could take their picture.
not to the one in Blue Earth. I do see the little statue in LeSueur every day

Quote:
I am a little confused. I get ABC on 27 but don't see able subchannels.
weird. I wonder if they are having issues because they did have 45TV and metv on the subs (rabbitears shows it as of August last year). KSAX in Alexandria has both still as of a couple weeks ago.

Quote:
I can get 30 most of time but pixelated, 34 occasionally bet very pixelated, 21 never, and 45 TBN always and never piexlated. If they are all using the same antenna and some that work have the same power as some that don't what am I missing. I know there are some difference in cabling loss and TX antenna efficiency but I didn't think the difference would be that great. I'm thinking that if I can get some chans off the Godahl tower maybe if I get something better than the Mohu I could get NBC since it is off that tower.
Tom
30 is the most powerful one on the Godahl towers so that one should be the "easiest" to pick up
If stations have the same power, tower height and antenna pattern the difference is the actual RF station they are broadcasting on. 2,000 watts on RF14 will travel further than 2,000 watts on RF36 as example. If you notice on your tvfool there are some stations with a "C" in front. That means there is some co-channel interference. There is a 21 that is being used in Granite Falls and while its 40 miles away it is possible that is causing some interference with the 21 on Godahl (where NBC is on).

I just think you need a better antenna. Something that would possibly be a little more directional. Also are you hooking it up directly to the Tv or going through the Tivo? Reason I ask is the premier has two tuners in it so the signal gets split right away. So if the signal is weak to begin with having that internal splitter weakens it more. Also the premier's OTA tuner wasn't the best of the bunch compared to the series 3 (the previous model) or the Roamio.
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post #22 of 83 Old 04-12-2018, 02:10 PM - Thread Starter
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No, I don't even LIKE GE to be honest.. However, the antenna is a winner.. Might be something to do with the curved reflector, but it was outstanding from the first day I put it up... To get a bit more gain, I had to go to 2 separate antennas, each 4 times the size of the little GE.. yes I got better signal strength, but with a higher mast and probably 6 times the weight on the roof ,..
I was getting stations in solid with no drop outs that TVFool showed had NM figures of -12- to -16.5..
It was and is a great performer.. I took it down, but its now in my truck on a short mast, and I check on what signals are in the far flung reaches of my very hilly rocky terrain.. It picks up UHF clearly from 80+ miles with no booster only 8 feet AGL...
Over the decades, I have found it to be the best antenna for its size I have personally ever used, and I have used a bunch of them.. Just passing on what I have experienced. bob
Hi Bob
I wish I would have done a little more research. I don't think the Mohu is a really bad choice - I just don't think it was the right one for my application. I do like it when someone else is the guinea pig. I am almost convinced to give the GE a try. As inexpensive as it is at least I'm not out much. The more I have learned I might make a better choice next time. If it would ever stop snowing here I would get moving on that. Maybe by May.
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not to the one in Blue Earth. I do see the little statue in LeSueur every day


weird. I wonder if they are having issues because they did have 45TV and metv on the subs (rabbitears shows it as of August last year). KSAX in Alexandria has both still as of a couple weeks ago.


30 is the most powerful one on the Godahl towers so that one should be the "easiest" to pick up
If stations have the same power, tower height and antenna pattern the difference is the actual RF station they are broadcasting on. 2,000 watts on RF14 will travel further than 2,000 watts on RF36 as example. If you notice on your tvfool there are some stations with a "C" in front. That means there is some co-channel interference. There is a 21 that is being used in Granite Falls and while its 40 miles away it is possible that is causing some interference with the 21 on Godahl (where NBC is on).

I just think you need a better antenna. Something that would possibly be a little more directional. Also are you hooking it up directly to the Tv or going through the Tivo? Reason I ask is the premier has two tuners in it so the signal gets split right away. So if the signal is weak to begin with having that internal splitter weakens it more. Also the premier's OTA tuner wasn't the best of the bunch compared to the series 3 (the previous model) or the Roamio.
Hi unclehokey,

I didn't even know they had a JGG statue in LeSuer. It makes sense since it started there I think.

I am going thru the Tivo. Before that was a DVR+ which also had two tuners. I really have not given that any thought. I had a Sony TV hook up before that and it did seem to be a little more sensitive. I think I might have a splitter and a distribution amp in my SD house from the cable co. That might boost the signal a bit. I could give that a try.

Right my Mohu is just mounted on a J bracket on the soffit. There is a tripod with a dish on my roof. My plan is to keep the dish on tripod and use some pipe to pipe clamps to put a 5.5' mast on the tripod and then put an antenna on the mast.
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post #24 of 83 Old 04-12-2018, 10:48 PM
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I didn't even know they had a JGG statue in LeSuer. It makes sense since it started there I think.
yup Green Giant started in LeSueur and there is still LeSueur canned vegetables

Quote:
Right my Mohu is just mounted on a J bracket on the soffit. There is a tripod with a dish on my roof. My plan is to keep the dish on tripod and use some pipe to pipe clamps to put a 5.5' mast on the tripod and then put an antenna on the mast.
sounds good. I did an install for my dad in the cities and mounted the antenna on the dish network mast. Took a 5 foot mast and chopped it down and used a couple hoseclamps. Works great
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post #25 of 83 Old 07-20-2018, 10:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Lamberton, MN: Antenna help

I'm torn between the GE 29884 which I already have. This antenna works much better than Mohu 60 Sky/Amazonbasics antenna that I am using. The other choice would be an Antenna Direct 4MAX with a reflector or a 4V if I can still get one.

Here is my TVFool report

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...903863608099a4

The cost of the antenna isn't so much the issue. I am disabled so I have hire someone to do the work and I would like to have the best chance of getting this right the first time.

Tom
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post #26 of 83 Old 07-20-2018, 04:47 PM
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Hello Tom

Your previous thread for reference:
http://01900888.com/forum/25-hd...l#post55995488

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrushApe View Post
Hello,
I am currently using a Mohu Sky 60 - actually it is the AmazonBasics (PBH-50046) knock off of it. It is mounted on the outside of the house at 18'. I am using a Tivo Premier for my receiver. I might split it to second TV later. I was going to include mytvfool report but I dont have enough posts. My zip is 56152.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...903863608099a4

The antenna has to be pointed towards Mankato. For being Omnidirectional it's pretty directional.
I can currently get CBS 12.1,FOX 12.2,PBS 20.1.2.3.4.5,ABC 43.1 and 3AB. Those channels all come in at signal strength of 65 to 99. I would really like to get NBC.

I could go about 10' higher but I would have to move about 15' further west.

Any ideas?
Tom
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrushApe View Post
The closest would be chan 21 in St James. I was able to get chan 11 (NBC - KARE) on a winter day with a Mohu Leaf precisely placed in my window. If a car went by I would lose signal.
K21DG is a translator for KARE.
http://www.rabbitears.info/market.p...callsign=K21DG



Your report says antenna at 16 feet. Is the window at 16 feet?

Where is the GE29884 now located?

Are there any trees in the signal path from 104 degrees?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrushApe View Post
I don't know if there are any buildings. It's farm country so there may be some silos in the path. There are quite a few trees but they are probably 40' to 50' away from the antenna. The bad thing is trees are mostly black walnut so they are quite dense.

A person who is a satellite TV installer recommended going with a HDB91X and a preamp. I would be ok with this setup but the wife would not. She doesn't appreciate beauty the same way I do. I had a hard time convincing her the Amazonbasics antenna wasn't too visually obtrusive.
Tom
I don't think you should expect the 4MAX or 4V to see through the trees even with a preamp.



I see a lot of trees in your area. If you tell me your address or give me the coordinates of your antenna in a PM for privacy, I can see where the green signal lines from the transmitters are on your property.
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If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 07-20-2018 at 06:58 PM.
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post #27 of 83 Old 07-20-2018, 08:34 PM
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Merged.

Please do not start a new thread when you already have one going.

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post #28 of 83 Old 07-20-2018, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrushApe View Post
I'm torn between the GE 29884 which I already have. This antenna works much better than Mohu 60 Sky/Amazonbasics antenna that I am using. The other choice would be an Antenna Direct 4MAX with a reflector or a 4V if I can still get one.

Here is my TVFool report

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...903863608099a4

The cost of the antenna isn't so much the issue. I am disabled so I have hire someone to do the work and I would like to have the best chance of getting this right the first time.

Tom
Tom
What stations are you getting now with the new antenna?
You mention on the tvfool it being up 16 feet is that on a ledge or window or the soffit like the other one was?

Quote:
There is a tripod with a dish on my roof. My plan is to keep the dish on tripod and use some pipe to pipe clamps to put a 5.5' mast on the tripod and then put an antenna on the mast.
How high up is the roof and would it clear the trees?

Oh and back earlier you mentioned that 43 (KRWF) only had ABC on it and you are right. A few weeks ago I picked it up in Le Sueur (one of those nights it was really hot and humid) and it was just ABC which contradicts what I thought it had (KSTC on -2 and ME on -3)

Tony

Last edited by unclehonkey; 07-20-2018 at 08:53 PM.
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post #29 of 83 Old 07-20-2018, 09:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unclehonkey View Post
Tom
What stations are you getting now with the new antenna?
You mention on the tvfool it being up 16 feet is that on a ledge or window or the soffit like the other one was?


How high up is the roof and would it clear the trees?

Oh and back earlier you mentioned that 43 (KRWF) only had ABC on it and you are right. A few weeks ago I picked it up in Le Sueur (one of those nights it was really hot and humid) and it was just ABC which contradicts what I thought it had (KSTC on -2 and ME on -3)

Tony
What stations are you getting now with the new antenna?

I know I get PBS on 2 ABC on 5 FOX on 9 NBC on 11 and Grit? aside from 12 and 20. These are all virtual and not real.

You mention on the tvfool it being up 16 feet is that on a ledge or window or the soffit like the other one was?

Thats the old report. I should run a new one. The new height is only 5' AGL.


How high up is the roof and would it clear the trees?

A story and a half - maybe 22 feet? No it's not above the tree canopy.

Oh and back earlier you mentioned that 43 (KRWF) only had ABC on it and you are right. A few weeks ago I picked it up in Le Sueur (one of those nights it was really hot and humid) and it was just ABC which contradicts what I thought it had (KSTC on -2 and ME on -3)

I don't know why that is.
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post #30 of 83 Old 07-21-2018, 03:21 PM
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Per TVFool and Rabbitears.info report above, CBS/FOX is carried on both Ch12 and Ch38. However, Ch38 shut down last year [see TRANSLATOR STATIONS para. in fol. Wiki Article], so you MAY need a Hi-VHF Antenna with much higher Gain than a simple Dipole to RELIABLY receive Ch12, such as Stellar Labs 9-El Yagi with a VHF/UHF Combiner. [BTW: A-D VHF Kit can be used with ANY UHF Antenna....talk or email ADTech re MAST mounting option...but I suspect it will NOT be adequate for long term reliability]:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KEYC-TV

Stellar Labs 9-El Yagi and VHF/UHF Combiner:
http://www.newark.com/stellar-labs/3...direct-product
http://www.amazon.com/30-2475-Fring.../dp/B014M0XXES
http://www.amazon.com/Antennas-Dire.../dp/B008PBTPN4 [VHF/UHF Combiner]

Don't waste your $$$'s on the LOW-GAIN C2 Antenna [Gain under 10 dBi], nor the Medium Gain C4 [Gain under 12 dBi]....any of the various 4-Bay Antennas (A-D DB-4e, CM4224HD, Solid-Signal HDB-4X) provide MUCH Higher Gain and Multipath Suppression:


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