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post #1 of 16 Old 12-03-2018, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Wilmington, OH: OTA help needed

New house, new area, starting from scratch.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...903883aede80fb

Looking at tvfool info, im not sure if I need a rotor or not? Also, qpuks like to stay in the attic, but if I could get significant gains with an outdoor model, tell me. Looking for an antenna, TV, and or anything else! Dayton, Cincinnati and columbus are all possibilities, but looking for hardware help. Heck, looking for a new TV as well, so the onboarding tuner is also something I'm interested in. If you have suggestions, I'd love to hear them!

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post #2 of 16 Old 12-03-2018, 12:49 PM
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1) Sticky at the top of the forum:
http://01900888.com/forum/25-hd...-1st-post.html


2) Please delete your address from your post!!! You are a spammers delight!



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post #3 of 16 Old 12-03-2018, 01:11 PM
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post #4 of 16 Old 12-03-2018, 01:19 PM
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I removed your address, but used it to run a TVFool report. Link added. Thread title edited per this sticky thread.

Please take time to read the sticky threads. They're there for a reason.

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post #5 of 16 Old 12-03-2018, 01:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, looks like the thread has the addy removed now, and the TV fool report inserted. Much obliged! Sorry for the rules infraction! I had my old house set up very well, thanks to this board, so I hope to continue that success.

Should I get a rotor or some sort to go from 315 to 238? Or do you thi kno could get a fixed position to gather both of those hot spots?
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post #6 of 16 Old 12-03-2018, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremiahm View Post
Ok, looks like the thread has the addy removed now, and the TV fool report inserted. Much obliged! Sorry for the rules infraction!
Not exactly rules, mind you. Just suggestions based on some 20 years of antenna help posts. It always boils down to the same information. The more you can post up front, the faster we can figure it out.

I'll be the first to say it's handy to have two markets to pull from. I'll also be the first to tell you attics are multipath nightmares. So are dual-antenna installations. While it's possible (and I'll admit a little fun) to combine two antennas pointing in different directions, the reflections you get from one antenna almost always interfere with the other one. You're close enough to Dayton that whatever you have aimed at Cincy is going to pick up Dayton.. probably enough to become a multipath issue which could be time-consuming and expensive to rectify.

I'd go outside with a really good combo (you'll need VHF-Lo as well as VHF-Hi) and a rotor. I'd bet there's a sweet spot when you point it just off of Cincinnati where you'll get both markets. If not, just move it when you need to.

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post #7 of 16 Old 12-03-2018, 01:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks don, could you point me to an appropriate combo?
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post #8 of 16 Old 12-03-2018, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Also, in the essence of "the more info the better" I'll say the following:

Our house has a metal roof, and brick exterior. Does this alone say to take the antenna outdoors by itself?

We have a bunch of trees around. Do trees affect the signal enough to try to get above them? This is, of course, in regards to trying to get the stations in my range (which I dont think is super far away, in the grand scheme of things?)

An attic installation would be soooooo easy, what am I giving up?

I'd like to run 3 TV's, do i need an amplifier? Or any special y's?
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post #9 of 16 Old 12-03-2018, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremiahm View Post
Our house has a metal roof, and brick exterior. Does this alone say to take the antenna outdoors by itself?
Probably the best.

Quote:
We have a bunch of trees around. Do trees affect the signal enough to try to get above them?
It always helps. Especially in the summertime.


Quote:
An attic installation would be soooooo easy, what am I giving up?
signal, reflections, metal roof is a big hitter (limiter).

Quote:
I'd like to run 3 TV's, do i need an amplifier? Or any special y's?
That will depend where the antenna is mounted, how long are the coax runs, wanting only one or both markets and lot's of other stuff.


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post #10 of 16 Old 12-04-2018, 09:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Still looking for recommendations on equipment needed.
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post #11 of 16 Old 12-04-2018, 09:49 AM
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Put an antenna on the roof and depending on the channels/stations you desire, a rotator may be useful.
As for amp... again, That will depend where the antenna is mounted, how long are the coax runs, wanting only one or both markets and lot's of other stuff.



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post #12 of 16 Old 12-04-2018, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremiahm View Post
Still looking for recommendations on equipment needed.
As Ratman said, the right antenna will depend upon where the antenna is mounted and which channels you want. First off, the TVFool report has a few errors because they are using a defective database to generate reports:



WHIO CBS is missing from your TVFool report, but it shows on this rabbitears.info report based on my estimate of your location:



It is the real channel number (also called physical channel or RF channel) that determines what antenna is needed.

VHF-Low, real channels 2-6
VHF-High, real channels 7-13
UHF, real channels 14-51

The virtual channel number (like 5.1 or 5-1) is a holdover from the analog TV days to maintain the identity of the station, and is what the TV displays. By convention, the virtual channel number is given in the decimal form to keep it from being confused with the real channel number.

I don't see any important VHF-Low channels on your reports, so you don't need a huge antenna that covers real channels 2-6. WLWD will be moving to channel 5 after repack by the FCC, but you probably will not need Daystar:

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=WLWD

There is a good selection of strong channels from Dayton that are all UHF at the present time. I would suggest just Dayton, but if you must have Dayton and Cincinnati, you will need an antenna with a wide beamwidth like the Antennas Direct C2VJ or its replacement the C2MAX with the accessory reflector. Both only have a dipole for VHF-High channels like the weaker WKRC CBS on real channel 12, but you already have WHIO for CBS.

If you put an antenna in your attic, the signals will not go through a metal roof. If the end of the attic faces west and the wall is vinyl or wood siding, the signals might get through without too much loss; brick will be a little more difficult. Maybe you can show us some photos of the exterior construction.

Trees can block TV signals, especially when they are wet. If you send me the coordinates of your proposed outdoor antenna location by PM to protect your privacy, I can look at the satellite view of the signal lines.

First get the signals you want on just one TV, splitting can come later. Try without a preamp first; your strongest signals might overload a preamp.

You must be prepared to do some experimentation to get what you want.

If the antenna is outside, the coax shield should be grounded with a grounding block that is connected to the house electrical system ground with 10 gauge copper wire for electrical safety and to reject interference. For further compliance with the electrical code (NEC), the mast should also be grounded in a similar manner to drain any buildup of static charge which will tend to discourage a strike, but the system will not survive a direct strike.

  

This shows some of the channel changes for Dayton indicated by arrows; click on a callsign to see sub channels::
http://www.rabbitears.info/market.p...&callsign=WLWD

and this for Cincinnati:
http://www.rabbitears.info/market.p...&callsign=WCPO

Dayton Repack Plan
http://www.rabbitears.info/repackch...h=&lss=&status=

Cincinnati:
http://www.rabbitears.info/repackch...h=&lss=&status=

Most changes will be during Phase 6, 9/7 to 10/18 2019

http://www.fcc.gov/about-fcc/fcc-initiatives/incentive-auctions/transition-schedule

http://www.commlawcenter.com/2017/04/fcc-announces-auction-results-and-sets-tv-repack-deadlines.html
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Last edited by rabbit73; 12-04-2018 at 12:48 PM.
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post #13 of 16 Old 12-04-2018, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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great info!

What a great post! Thanks!


WKRC is home to the bengals games. As much as they suck, its important to get that station. (Bengal fan by birth, not by choice.)


My home is very strange... It's basically brick on the first floor, with vinyl from there up. So the attic would have a vinyl wall on one end, but the metal roof would be the other wall of the attic spaces. I have a telephone pole in my yard that would make a great place for an antenna, but I'm not sure how many feet of coax I could run and still be ahead?


The best antenna spot would probably be the top of my chimney.






Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
As Ratman said, the right antenna will depend upon where the antenna is mounted and which channels you want. First off, the TVFool report has a few errors because they are using a defective database to generate reports:



WHIO CBS is missing from your TVFool report, but it shows on this rabbitears.info report based on my estimate of your location:



It is the real channel number (also called physical channel or RF channel) that determines what antenna is needed.

VHF-Low, real channels 2-6
VHF-High, real channels 7-13
UHF, real channels 14-51

The virtual channel number (like 5.1 or 5-1) is a holdover from the analog TV days to maintain the identity of the station, and is what the TV displays. By convention, the virtual channel number is given in the decimal form to keep it from being confused with the real channel number.

I don't see any important VHF-Low channels on your reports, so you don't need a huge antenna that covers real channels 2-6. WLWD will be moving to channel 5 after repack by the FCC, but you probably will not need Daystar:

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=WLWD

There is a good selection of strong channels from Dayton that are all UHF at the present time. I would suggest just Dayton, but if you must have Dayton and Cincinnati, you will need an antenna with a wide beamwidth like the Antennas Direct C2VJ or its replacement the C2MAX with the accessory reflector. Both only have a dipole for VHF-High channels like the weaker WKRC CBS on real channel 12, but you already have WHIO for CBS.

If you put an antenna in your attic, the signals will not go through a metal roof. If the end of the attic faces west and the wall is vinyl or wood siding, the signals might get through without too much loss; brick will be a little more difficult. Maybe you can show us some photos of the exterior construction.

Trees can block TV signals, especially when they are wet. If you send me the coordinates of your proposed outdoor antenna location by PM to protect your privacy, I can look at the satellite view of the signal lines.

First get the signals you want on just one TV, splitting can come later. Try without a preamp first; your strongest signals might overload a preamp.

You must be prepared to do some experimentation to get what you want.

If the antenna is outside, the coax shield should be grounded with a grounding block that is connected to the house electrical system ground with 10 gauge copper wire for electrical safety and to reject interference. For further compliance with the electrical code (NEC), the mast should also be grounded in a similar manner to drain any buildup of static charge which will tend to discourage a strike, but the system will not survive a direct strike.

  

This shows some of the channel changes for Dayton indicated by arrows; click on a callsign to see sub channels::
http://www.rabbitears.info/market.p...&callsign=WLWD

and this for Cincinnati:
http://www.rabbitears.info/market.p...&callsign=WCPO

Dayton Repack Plan
http://www.rabbitears.info/repackch...h=&lss=&status=

Cincinnati:
http://www.rabbitears.info/repackch...h=&lss=&status=

Most changes will be during Phase 6, 9/7 to 10/18 2019

http://www.fcc.gov/about-fcc/fcc-initiatives/incentive-auctions/transition-schedule

http://www.commlawcenter.com/2017/04/fcc-announces-auction-results-and-sets-tv-repack-deadlines.html
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post #14 of 16 Old 12-04-2018, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
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What a great post! Thanks!


WKRC is home to the bengals games. As much as they suck, its important to get that station. (Bengal fan by birth, not by choice.)
FWIW, Dayton is a secondary market for the Bengals. Either WHIO or WGRT will carry every Sunday Bengals game, home and away. The only time you will need Cincinnati stations is if you don't have access to ESPN or NFLN (for non-Fox TNF). Monday Night (and non-Fox Thursday night) games will be broadcast locally in Cincinnati, but not necessarily on WKRC or WXIX.

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post #15 of 16 Old 12-04-2018, 03:51 PM
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Cincinnati stations are at almost a RIGHT ANGLE to Dayton (Max=80-deg), so I do NOT see the utility of using the recommended 2-Bay Antennas....which may NOT have enough Gain to receive the Weaker Dayton & Cincinnati Stations (NM only 20-30 dB).

The chosen antenna should be pointed towards the weakest stations (i.e. Cincinnati) and then tweaked toward the direction of Dayton just enough to receive those stations....which are for the most part Very Strong and should work just fine as long as they are NOT close to the NULL at 90-deg away from the Beam. I would recommend any of the 4-Bay Bowtie Antennas (e.g. Solid Signal HDB-4X, CM4221HD, A-D DB-4e, etc), which have MUCH higher Gain and Multipath Rejection than A-D C2 Series....which will help to get thru those trees.

Chimney Mount would be best. I would recommend using a Mast Mounted Preamp, such as W-G LNA-200, bearing in mind that IF you use an RF Splitter and locate the Power Insertion Module next to one of the TV's, the RF Splitter will need to have DC PASS on that Port, which is more typical of SAT Splitters, whereas most Cable Splitter BLOCK DC voltage going to the Preamp.

Last edited by holl_ands; 12-04-2018 at 04:03 PM.
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post #16 of 16 Old 12-04-2018, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
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WKRC is home to the bengals games. As much as they suck, its important to get that station. (Bengal fan by birth, not by choice.)
If WKRC is that important to you, I suggest an Antennas Direct DB4e UHF antenna aimed at Dayton and a Stellar Labs 30-2475 VHF-High antenna aimed at WKRC. Combine the two antennas with an Antennas Direct UHF/VHF combiner. The DB4e does have more gain than the C2, but it doesn't have sufficient beamwidth for both directions.
http://store.antennasdirect.com/DB4...v-antenna.html

http://www.newark.com/stellar-labs/...vhf/dp/48Y8141

http://store.antennasdirect.com/UHF...Combiners.html

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Last edited by rabbit73; 12-04-2018 at 05:56 PM.
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