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post #121 of 199 Old 11-21-2018, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by smitty View Post
Agreed. I think it's attributable in large part to the idiosyncrasies of folks who populate a forum like this. We tend to be very, very particular and focus on, and get bothered, by things that a normal viewer, or even a semi-serious audio/videophile, wouldn't notice unless you pointed it out to them. We tend to obsess over the smallest details. Now, in some ways that makes the hobby fun, especially when you get whatever display you are using to finally provide you with the viewing experience you have been seeking, but we can sometimes tend to lose our perspective, or obsess over some things, in our pursuit of perfection.

And it's human nature, once we find something that we really like and after we have put some time in to making it as close to perfect as we can, to decide that anybody who doesn't make the same choice as we did is blind, deaf, or mentally unbalanced.
Agreed. The disagreementz on these forums are legendary. Laserdisc vs. DVD, Blu-Ray vs. HD DVD, 720P vs. 1080i, LCD vs. DLP, LCD vs. Plasma, LED vs. OLED, Blu-Ray vs. UHD, etc. Some (BD v. HD DVD comes to mind) were downright nasty.

They all stem from human nature that we want everyone to love what we love and cannot understand why if they don't.

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post #122 of 199 Old 11-21-2018, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by techvader View Post
Its very sad that you have an oled tv and you dont even understand the technology, do you even know what cause burn in its simply the pixels aging and getting dimmer over time and if you have a static logo on the screen that part will age faster.
First of all cranking up the brightness will make the pixels age faster and get dimer you might not notice it because its a gradual process and if you game hard for one month you wont see the burn in because that is not enough time but keep doing it and its only a matter of time before you see it.

Another thing to remember its only bright static logs that will give you problems dark logos and huds is not that big of an issue and also the oled panel lottery means some screens will burn in faster than others, its a Russian roulette kind of affair.
I am sorry you are very sad, but don’t be. I fully understand the technology and have successfully used the TV for 3 years now. I plan on successfully using it for another 3 at which time I will feel I have gotten my money’s worth and will buy a new one if necessary. I don’t just play video games on it. Also, HDR cranks up the brightness. I don’t do it explicitly.
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post #123 of 199 Old 11-21-2018, 11:52 AM
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I don't know. Why do critics of OLED, or people who think OLED is not right for them, often feel compelled to make assertions that anybody who buys an OLED is a fool who doesn't understand the technology. You can see it on this thread and the thread about people who miss plasmas.

I think one can have a balanced perspective on the issue. There's certainly a reason to think about burn-in, but it seems to be a little early to conclude that burn-in is a serous concern for people who watch and rotate among various types of content. And we certainly don't know yet what the later models might reveal with things like the pixel refreshers, etc. Also, I don't think it is necessarily the case that one should only "rarely" watch anything with logos or crawls -- virtually everything has logos or some static image.

In short, we still don't know serious an issue it might be for many folks. So to say it is not an issue at all is probably overreaching, but to say it is a serious problem and nobody should buy an OLED is overreaching also.
I'm not a critic of OLED, and I've never insulted anyone who buys an OLED set. My brother has an OLED that has a picture and feature set that I totally envy. He does watch a lot of news, though, and I hope he never suffers burn-in as I did with my plasma. I agree with your balanced perspective on the issue, and ultimately, everyone has to make decisions based on what they are comfortable with.

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post #124 of 199 Old 11-21-2018, 12:26 PM
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I am sorry you are very sad, but don’t be. I fully understand the technology and have successfully used the TV for 3 years now. I plan on successfully using it for another 3 at which time I will feel I have gotten my money’s worth and will buy a new one if necessary. I don’t just play video games on it. Also, HDR cranks up the brightness. I don’t do it explicitly.
I will tell you something interesting that nobody talks about how long will a oled tv last you with hdr, before hdr oled tvs were rated at 100,000 hours with a 50 percent decrease in luminance, add in bright hdr going up to 800 nits and that speeds up the life cycle of oled by about 400 percent so there will be a big reduction in how long that oled panel will last.
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post #125 of 199 Old 11-21-2018, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by techvader View Post
I will tell you something interesting that nobody talks about how long will a oled tv last you with hdr, before hdr oled tvs were rated at 100,000 hours with a 50 percent decrease in luminance, add in bright hdr going up to 800 nits and that speeds up the life cycle of oled by about 400 percent so there will be a big reduction in how long that oled panel will last.
So what. Tech moves fast. A set sold today will be functionally obsolete way before it burns out during normal, non-commercial use.
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post #126 of 199 Old 11-21-2018, 12:33 PM
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Well the key is it is possible, the rtings tests support this conclusion, and the airport TVs I saw that some folks do not want me to talk about here only reinforced this notion.
If the airports don't regularly power the commercial sets down to allow the compensation cycle to work its tech magic, I suspect they would be ruined pretty quickly.
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post #127 of 199 Old 11-21-2018, 12:49 PM
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So what. Tech moves fast. A set sold today will be functionally obsolete way before it burns out during normal, non-commercial use.
I strongly disagree a high end tv brought in 2008 10 years later its not obsolete the 1080p still looks good, also the average consumer cannot afford to buy a tv for over 3 grand then throw it away in a few years so how long the pixels last in the tv is very important.
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post #128 of 199 Old 11-21-2018, 12:57 PM
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I'm not a critic of OLED, and I've never insulted anyone who buys an OLED set.
I didn't mean to imply that you were a critic or had insulted anyone. I was referring to other folks and speaking generally.
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post #129 of 199 Old 11-21-2018, 01:03 PM
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[A]lso the average consumer cannot afford to buy a tv for over 3 grand then throw it away . . . .
Are there any "average consumers" on this forum? I suspect the ratio on this forum of audio/video nuts to "average consumers" is roughly 100 to 1.
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post #130 of 199 Old 11-21-2018, 01:43 PM
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Are there any "average consumers" on this forum? I suspect the ratio on this forum of audio/video nuts to "average consumers" is roughly 100 to 1.
I would consider myself an average consumer.

I bought a 2016 LG OLED55E6P looking at a 10 year or more investment, and wanted the best, in my opinion, for my money (and 3D, which was very important).

The subsequent issues with burn in have left me with some buyer's remorse, and no real fix since no one makes a 3D TV anymore.

I just had the panel on my TV replaced by LG (thanks LG!) at no cost because, even though it was out of warranty, it showed burn in after 3400 hours of use.

I do mixed viewing and gaming, but the burn in was clearly from the HUD in Destiny2 (440hrs playtime).
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post #131 of 199 Old 11-21-2018, 02:13 PM
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I bought a 2016 LG OLED55E6P looking at a 10 year or more investment . . .
Yes, planning to keep your set for 10 years would probably put you in the "average consumer" category.

Sorry to hear about your bad experience. At least LG gave you a new panel.
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post #132 of 199 Old 11-21-2018, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by smitty View Post
Are there any "average consumers" on this forum? I suspect the ratio on this forum of audio/video nuts to "average consumers" is roughly 100 to 1.
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Originally Posted by smitty
Yes, planning to keep your set for 10 years would probably put you in the "average consumer" category.
There was actually a poll here. Only a few replaced their TV once a year, most replaced the TV after 5/10 years.
http://01900888.com/forum/40-ol...l#post55797292
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post #133 of 199 Old 11-21-2018, 06:07 PM
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It is apparent that the issue is a lot worse than LG expected or wants to admit
That seems plausible. I had an older Pioneer plasma (Media Center) that I inherited from a friend. I was surprised to discover that, when you hit Mute, the Mute icon and the Volume Level line indicator lit up on screen and STAYED lit until changed. Not surprisingly, an image of these indicators remained visible, especially on dark scenes. I don't think Pioneer would have made that design decision had they been fully aware of the problem.

I should add that, upon seeing this, I bypassed the Media Center for audio and hooked up an AVR to eliminate the Mute/Volume Bar onscreen indicator. After that the burn-in image slowly began to fade, but was visible if you looked for it.
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post #134 of 199 Old 11-21-2018, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Gr8M1ke4516 View Post
I would consider myself an average consumer.

I bought a 2016 LG OLED55E6P looking at a 10 year or more investment, and wanted the best, in my opinion, for my money (and 3D, which was very important).

The subsequent issues with burn in have left me with some buyer's remorse, and no real fix since no one makes a 3D TV anymore.

I just had the panel on my TV replaced by LG (thanks LG!) at no cost because, even though it was out of warranty, it showed burn in after 3400 hours of use.

I do mixed viewing and gaming, but the burn in was clearly from the HUD in Destiny2 (440hrs playtime).
LOL, 440 hours of Destiny 2. Yes, I imagine that would do it. I try to make sure the games I play don’t have static huds I.e. Shadow of the Tomb Raider currently. I have to say, the OLED and HDR looks amazing when gaming, but I am careful. Glad you got a free replacement.
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post #135 of 199 Old 11-21-2018, 07:51 PM
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LOL, 440 hours of Destiny 2. Yes, I imagine that would do it. I try to make sure the games I play don’t have static huds I.e. Shadow of the Tomb Raider currently. I have to say, the OLED and HDR looks amazing when gaming, but I am careful. Glad you got a free replacement.
Maybe, but I don't think 440hrs of a static element is very extreme....

Assume a panel life of 10,000 hours (never mind the 50k or 100k advertised)

That's a static image for only 4.4% of life.

Seems like a really small number to cause such a big problem.....
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post #136 of 199 Old 11-21-2018, 09:20 PM
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I just triple-downed. That makes a 55", 65" and 77" from 2016, 2017, and 2018.
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post #137 of 199 Old 11-21-2018, 11:00 PM
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Went to Sams Club in Wesley Chapel FL briefly today. They have a C8 running a demo loop. Has BI showing now. First 2018 Oled I have personally seen BI on. So...even with the new pixel arrangement...they burn in too. LG...got to wonder about them. Seems like by now they would know to put longer loops on their demo models...

At least they are clear in the owners manuals about BI risks now. And give advise.

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post #138 of 199 Old 11-22-2018, 12:11 PM
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Agreed. The disagreementz on these forums are legendary. Laserdisc vs. DVD, Blu-Ray vs. HD DVD, 720P vs. 1080i, LCD vs. DLP, LCD vs. Plasma, LED vs. OLED, Blu-Ray vs. UHD, etc. Some (BD v. HD DVD comes to mind) were downright nasty.
There should be a thread about something more important to everyone. The industry and most people call it memorable scenes. I call it BRAIN BURN IN! For the love of god I can't get rid of that brain burn in of Luke Skywalker and his green milk. HALP! Oh no here it goes again!!!



Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo!


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post #139 of 199 Old 11-23-2018, 09:18 AM
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That seems plausible. I had an older Pioneer plasma (Media Center) that I inherited from a friend. I was surprised to discover that, when you hit Mute, the Mute icon and the Volume Level line indicator lit up on screen and STAYED lit until changed. Not surprisingly, an image of these indicators remained visible, especially on dark scenes. I don't think Pioneer would have made that design decision had they been fully aware of the problem.

I should add that, upon seeing this, I bypassed the Media Center for audio and hooked up an AVR to eliminate the Mute/Volume Bar onscreen indicator. After that the burn-in image slowly began to fade, but was visible if you looked for it.
This is what is concerning to me about OLED. With Plasma, there were methods of bringing back a set that suffered burn-in (dependent on degree). Seems that may not be the case for OLED- if it happens, it looks to be permanent.

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post #140 of 199 Old 11-23-2018, 09:24 AM
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^^ I'm not interested in buying an OLED, so I have no dog in the hunt -- just plasma experience. I would observe that it (burn-in) should be kept in mind using common sense if considering getting an OLED. Which is to say: if you watch a lot of cable news, or any other kind of news/comment show, skip it.


It may not be that simple, though. Just about any sports programming will have a scorebox fixed on the screen for the entire game, not to mention gaming. With all of these restrictions, unless all you watch are movies, it doesn't make a lot of sense to add more stress to what for many is already a somewhat stressful life.

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post #141 of 199 Old 11-23-2018, 05:59 PM
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^^ I'm not interested in buying an OLED, so I have no dog in the hunt -- just plasma experience. I would observe that it (burn-in) should be kept in mind using common sense if considering getting an OLED. Which is to say: if you watch a lot of cable news, or any other kind of news/comment show, skip it.


It may not be that simple, though. Just about any sports programming will have a scorebox fixed on the screen for the entire game, not to mention gaming. With all of these restrictions, unless all you watch are movies, it doesn't make a lot of sense to add more stress to what for many is already a somewhat stressful life.
Imagine how folks would treat their Oleds if it was the last TV they could ever own.

Say...your launched in a spaceship for a 10 year trip to the...planet of lusty ladies. After you lift off mission control discovers your only tv can/will suffer BI at some point, likely before reaching the new world if your not very careful.

That's how it is-ish for lovers of 3D who own the best Oled TV's ever made, the 2016 C, E and G's.

But for those buying mono vision only Oleds...it's only money at risk. Easy to replace. So uneven wearing is less of a concern.


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post #142 of 199 Old 11-23-2018, 09:46 PM
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I have an OLED phone that has permanent burn-in.


I refuse to do a tv that can get permanent burn-in. My wife and kids don't pay attention to what they are doing. They will leave static menus on the TV for hours at a time. I simply could never be comfortable with any display that is susceptible to burn-in.


and since I am gone out of the house for at least 12 hours when I go to work (oftentimes more) I just can't risk it. Not with that kind of money.

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post #143 of 199 Old 11-24-2018, 12:59 AM
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Are there any "average consumers" on this forum? I suspect the ratio on this forum of audio/video nuts to "average consumers" is roughly 100 to 1.
DV: General, your report.
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post #144 of 199 Old 11-26-2018, 01:22 PM
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I have 2 OLED tv's. First one is a 65EF9500, with over 4500 hours. OLED light is set to 100, and contrast at 85 for over 4000 hours. Most watching sports with logos and banners. No BI. My second tv is a 65E6 OLED with over 2000 hours. Again, no BI. It is completely being overblown. Real world use, no BI for me.
FIFY.

Burn-in is not a problem until it happens to you. I too had a 65E6 with the OLED light set at 100. (My contrast may have been 85 too but not sure.) Burn-in started after about a year of use. LG could not fix it.

Count yourself lucky.
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post #145 of 199 Old 11-26-2018, 01:24 PM
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4K with a plasma would have been a massive power hog. Then there are energy regulations that really killed plasma.

They came in very handy on a cold winter's day...

And hell on earth during the summer.
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post #146 of 199 Old 11-26-2018, 01:30 PM
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FIFY.

Burn-in is not a problem until it happens to you. I too had a 65E6 with the OLED light set at 100. (My contrast may have been 85 too but not sure.) Burn-in started after about a year of use. LG could not fix it.

Count yourself lucky.
I'm not saying it doesn't occur, but I took precautions to ensure it is less likely to occur. First, I went into SM and changed how often the auto comp cycle ran from 4 hours to 1 hour. That way if I only watch the tv for 1 hour that day, the comp cycle will run and help reduce the chance of BI. Second, I don't watch a whole lot of CNN, Fox News, etc, with those always on logos, even during commercials on my E6. I do watch channels that have static logos, but they all disappear when commercials appear. In most cases, a 30 minute show will have 3 commercial breaks lasting about 3 minutes each, and those breaks are generally enough to prevent BI.

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post #147 of 199 Old 11-26-2018, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by JLaud25 View Post
From someone who has used oled in a home environment for over a year (airport public display is not representative at all of home use), i would say of all the reasons you might cough up of trying to avoid oled, burn in risk should be right at the bottom of your list. the risk of permanent burn in on oled with normal home use is much less than plasma, which itself affected less than 10% total users.

Burn-in risk is not a risk until it bites you. My 65E6 had bad burn-in that started a year into ownership and LG couldn't fix it. Burn-in risk is no longer at the bottom of my list.

And I will not spend any more of my money on an OLED.
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post #148 of 199 Old 11-26-2018, 01:45 PM
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As you noted not typical home use, so feel free to ignore.

Others may see it as akin to accelerated testing on a sizable sample of screens and then note the correlation with what rtings is seeing.

Rational arguments often fall on deaf ears when confronted with strongly-held beliefs.
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post #149 of 199 Old 11-26-2018, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
tv manufacturers show off their products at airports. In fact lg installed 69 2018 oleds in januari 2018 at the airport. People seeing their products might be more importants than wether or not airport content will cause burn in. Other than that it seems pretty clear that folks at forums and pro sites know more about the oled issues than lg is willing to admit.

fify.
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post #150 of 199 Old 11-26-2018, 05:06 PM
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I refuse to do a tv that can get permanent burn-in. My wife and kids don't pay attention to what they are doing. They will leave static menus on the TV for hours at a time. I simply could never be comfortable with any display that is susceptible to burn-in.
Sounds like more of an issue with your wife and kids than with TV technology.
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