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post #1 of 167 Old 10-12-2018, 11:23 AM - Thread Starter
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First IMAX Enhanced 4K Blu-rays Announced Featuring HDR10+

The first two IMAX Enhanced Ultra HD Blu-ray titles have been announced, with the release date of December 11. They are: A Beautiful Planet and Journey to the South Pacific, both of which are nature documentaries and original IMAX films.

Notably, not only are these discs the first IMAX Enhanced titles, they also appear to be the first to include HDR10+ mastering. The IMAX enhanced aspect of the presentation includes video and audio elements. Visually, you'll enjoy the detail and grandeur of what IMAX cameras on a 4K TV, there's no explicit need for compatible equipment.

If you have an IMAX-enhanced display, you can use the dedicated IMAX Enhanced mode that's tuned to present the content at its best. The idea behind IMAX Enhanced is that you can start buying the content now and then upgrade to gear that makes the most of it, including on the audio side of things where the IMAX, in coordination with DTS, differentiates itself from competing 3D immersive audio formats.

The other very interesting thing about these 4K UHD Blu-ray releases is the support for HDR10+, which is a HDR format that uses dynamic metadata to help TVs show the best picture possible. HDR10+ is similar in concept to Dolby Vision but is considered an "open" standard because you don't have to pay Dolby licensing fees to use it. Its inclusion on a disc that eschews Dolby Atmos for the DTS:X-based IMAX Enhanced sound is not a shocking surprise!

So far, HDR10+ has been restricted to streaming content, mainly from Amazon. But now, it's appearing on disc. The question is, what's needed to play HDR10+ back properly? After all, a lot of recent Samsung TVs support the format, despite IMAX Enhanced currently only having Sony on board as far as display makers go.

I'm in touch with IMAX and will be covering IMAX Enhanced content and gear closely now that content is on its way. From what I've seen and heard already, this is about more than just "a logo" so stay tuned for more...

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post #2 of 167 Old 10-12-2018, 01:50 PM
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Once all equipment is out there to have a complete IMAX Enhanced pipeline I'd be curious to hear/see the difference between the other formats. I'm just still happy that they're still pressing along with physical media, streaming is great and I do majority of my watching on it but movie night is still reserved for Blu-Rays.
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post #3 of 167 Old 10-12-2018, 02:02 PM
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let the confusion begin, do we really need another 2 formats?
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post #4 of 167 Old 10-12-2018, 02:05 PM
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let the confusion begin, do we really need another 2 formats?
I can answer that, nope.

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post #5 of 167 Old 10-12-2018, 02:13 PM
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I can answer that, nope.

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Crazy, right? I mean cmon. Most people, not including us enthusiast have no clue what HDR is let alone Dolby Vision. And now HDR10+ and IMAX Enhanced, gimme a break. I hope this fails. Why can't they just agree on one standard?
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post #6 of 167 Old 10-12-2018, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by akadennis View Post
Crazy, right? I mean cmon. Most people, not including us enthusiast have no clue what HDR is let alone Dolby Vision. And now HDR10+ and IMAX Enhanced, gimme a break. I hope this fails. Why can't they just agree on one standard?
Completely unnecessary and confusing to the public. Now 8k is starting which just annoys most people.

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post #7 of 167 Old 10-12-2018, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Granted.. nobody "needs" any of this... but hey let the people who want it enjoy it, lol. Also HDR10+ already exists and so does IMAX. And I bet more people have heard of Dolby Vision than some folks give credit for. It's not some big secret unobtanium format, it's something you can get from Netflix and others using a $500 TV from Best Buy that has a big logo right on the box. IMAX Enhanced is not "just a logo" but it definitely will be promoted by a logo on the box.

Anyhow, IMAX is about big cameras with huge resolution and high production quality standards. Cynical dismissiveness may be a fun anonymous pastime on the Internet but I think it's crazy to judge the potential of IMAX enhanced before the gear and content is even out there.

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post #8 of 167 Old 10-12-2018, 02:25 PM
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Completely unnecessary and confusing to the public. Now 8k is starting which just annoys most people.

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Very confusing to the public, most people are just looking for the cheapest largest TV they can find. They could care less about Dolby Vision, etc. As long as the picture is clear that is all they care about. Of course we are not most people :-) and I know for myself I look for the best picture quality as well as future proofing. But with all this there is no future proofing cause my TV is already extinct and I just bought it. Can't play HDR10+ on it, I know it can play the HDR10 layer but who wants that when you can get the plus version LOL and forget about IMAX Enhanced, it def. cannot play that.
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post #9 of 167 Old 10-12-2018, 02:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Very confusing to the public, most people are just looking for the cheapest largest TV they can find. They could care less about Dolby Vision, etc. As long as the picture is clear that is all they care about. Of course we are not most people :-) and I know for myself I look for the best picture quality as well as future proofing. But with all this there is no future proofing cause my TV is already extinct and I just bought it. Can't play HDR10+ on it, I know it can play the HDR10 layer but who wants that when you can get the plus version LOL and forget about IMAX Enhanced it def. cannot play that.
Well, fundamentally, any 16:9 ratio UHD display can play the most basic feature of IMAX Enhanced. That is the variable aspect ratio where IMAX scenes (in films shot that way, like Christopher Nolan films) expand from 2.40:1 to fill a 16:9 screen (or in some cases, almost fill since there might be small letterbox bars). This is faithful to the theatrical IMAX presentation and can be seen when playing the disc in plain old HDR10, which still works since the dynamic metadata formats are add-on extras.

I see endless debate following. But the idea is, just buying the disc gets you something. Having a compatible audio system gets you something. It remains to be seen what IMAX Enhanced means for certified displays but it's likely that too gets you something.
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post #10 of 167 Old 10-12-2018, 02:48 PM
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And it seems this marks the first for IMAX to NOT release on the Blu ray 3D format (since 2009), both of which had 3D theatrical releases. A Beautiful Planet was converted to 3D so I can forgive that one but not Journey which was filmed with IMAX 3D cameras.

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This is mostly an empty gimmick. The only possible value-add I see here is the aspect ratio.
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post #12 of 167 Old 10-12-2018, 03:21 PM
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post #13 of 167 Old 10-12-2018, 03:22 PM
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I wish these IMAX titles had Dolby Vision.

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post #14 of 167 Old 10-12-2018, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Granted.. nobody "needs" any of this... but hey let the people who want it enjoy it, lol. Also HDR10+ already exists and so does IMAX. And I bet more people have heard of Dolby Vision than some folks give credit for. It's not some big secret unobtanium format, it's something you can get from Netflix and others using a $500 TV from Best Buy that has a big logo right on the box. IMAX Enhanced is not "just a logo" but it definitely will be promoted by a logo on the box.

Anyhow, IMAX is about big cameras with huge resolution and high production quality standards. Cynical dismissiveness may be a fun anonymous pastime on the Internet but I think it's crazy to judge the potential of IMAX enhanced before the gear and content is even out there.

HDR10+ does indeed have a licensing fee attached. It is coordinated differently with licensees than with Dolby Vision, but it is not free to use like standard HDR10 as is often erroneously reported. It also has no target, display-oriented tone map or optional 12 bit enhancement layer like Dolby Vision on disc. IMAX certified displays have their own custom map built-in that engages when it reads a header flag in the video signal and is a separate feature outside of the HDR10+ process than standard HDR10+ content.
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post #15 of 167 Old 10-12-2018, 03:51 PM
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Well, fundamentally, any 16:9 ratio UHD display can play the most basic feature of IMAX Enhanced. That is the variable aspect ratio where IMAX scenes (in films shot that way, like Christopher Nolan films) expand from 2.40:1 to fill a 16:9 screen (or in some cases, almost fill since there might be small letterbox bars). This is faithful to the theatrical IMAX presentation and can be seen when playing the disc in plain old HDR10, which still works since the dynamic metadata formats are add-on extras.

I see endless debate following. But the idea is, just buying the disc gets you something. Having a compatible audio system gets you something. It remains to be seen what IMAX Enhanced means for certified displays but it's likely that too gets you something.

From the IMAX Enhanced website, it sounds like they may be altering films given this "treatment" to 1.78:1 because that gives you "more" image. Here we ago again with the "fill my screen" crowd. I mean, we already can get the alternating ratio versions on regular discs, but they seem to be pushing this point of "full frame" IMAX disc releases.


Plus, it remains to be seen what their DMR process will do to 4k masters. Why is extra DNR and edge enhancement even necessary?? They're not blowing a 2k or 4k master to IMAX proportions for theatrical distribution. The affect of DNR is already showing its ugly face on 4k releases of Grease and many of the Chris Nolan Batman releases for instance.
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post #16 of 167 Old 10-12-2018, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
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From the IMAX Enhanced website, it sounds like they may be altering films given this "treatment" to 1.78:1 because that gives you "more" image. Here we ago again with the "fill my screen" crowd. I mean, we already can get the alternating ratio versions on regular discs, but they seem to be pushing this point of "full frame" IMAX disc releases.


Plus, it remains to be seen what their DMR process will do to 4k masters. Why is extra DNR and edge enhancement even necessary?? They're not blowing a 2k or 4k master to IMAX proportions for theatrical distribution.
Arguably, because noise (and film grain) eats up compression bandwidth, and unless it's in the content for artistic effect, it's generally unwelcome. As for edge enhancement, gotta wait and see but my guess is IMAX Enhanced settings on TVs/projectors would by default has sharpening turned off. Just a guess, I plan to be hands-on soon.

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post #17 of 167 Old 10-12-2018, 03:58 PM
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This is mostly an empty gimmick. The only possible value-add I see here is the aspect ratio.

And if they're altering scope images to get you that "full frame" look, then it sure isn't value added... it's a big, fat lump of coal.

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post #18 of 167 Old 10-12-2018, 04:00 PM
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Arguably, because noise (and film grain) eats up compression bandwidth, and unless it's in the content for artistic effect, it's generally unwelcome. As for edge enhancement, gotta wait and see but my guess is IMAX Enhanced settings on TVs/projectors would by default has sharpening turned off. Just a guess, I plan to be hands-on soon.
Grain is a natural process of film... take it out and you get wax dummies and an unnatural texture. I can see it for digitally shot films where they want to take out sensor noise in post production (some DP's add a film grain layer to digital imagery to emulate film stock... and then IMAX might be scrubbing that out when it was supposed to be there), but not for celluloid productions. This is a terrible precedent.


IMAX Enhanced is also saying you get a "sharper" image than before. That also implies adding EE as has been shown to happen when studios use DMR masters for their IMAX sequences. It looks awful.
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post #19 of 167 Old 10-12-2018, 04:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Grain is a natural process of film... take it out and you get wax dummies and an unnatural texture. I can see it for digitally shot films where they want to take out sensor noise in post production, but not for celluloid productions. This is a terrible precedent.
I do not agree, that only happens if you use a "cheap" algorithm, for example letting a TV's DNR try to get rid of film grain.

The reality of HDR is that it exaggerates film grain. If you don't mitigate it, it looks excessive. this is because of the much higher native contrast ratio of modern flat panels, versus commercial cinemas. I also highly doubt that the process will be used destructively in the manner you describe. If it's handled in mastering, you can apply just the right amount of noise reduction to film grain to get the perfect effect, just like you can with still images in Photoshop.
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post #20 of 167 Old 10-12-2018, 04:06 PM - Thread Starter
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And if they're altering scope images to get you that "full frame" look, then it sure isn't value added... it's a big, fat lump of coal.
It's exactly as presented in theaters per the director's intent. Mock away, Christopher Nolan is laughing his way to the bank while waving his Oscars in the air.
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post #21 of 167 Old 10-12-2018, 04:12 PM
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It's exactly as presented in theaters per the director's intent. Mock away, Christopher Nolan is laughing his way to the bank while waving his Oscars in the air.

Not if the sequences meant to be scope are also shown 1.78:1 on these "special" releases. If they just keep the IMAX sequences as the director intended, then that's fine. But this doesn't sound like what they want to do.



For instance, Blade Runner 2049 was framed and composed for scope (not using anamorphic lenses because the DP didn't like the aesthetic), but against Roger Deakins' preference, they opened up the entire film to 1.90:1 for IMAX (even having to digitally remove objects like boom poles and dolly track from the shots). If they release films like this that go against filmmaker intent... then how is this good?

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No. They are reducing the amount of cropping so that you see more of the original material. They aren't cropping the sides off scope AR films to get 1.78.

You can only frame for one ratio. Ask any DP worth his or her salt. If framed for scope, by opening up the masking on non-anamorphically lensed productions, you're ruining the composition of the shot. More image does not mean a better image.
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post #23 of 167 Old 10-12-2018, 04:23 PM
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No. They are reducing the amount of cropping so that you see more of the original material. They aren't cropping the sides off scope AR films to get 1.78.
I think I may be wrong.

Ugh. It seems they might actually be trying to get to 1.78 by including the top and bottom information the director intended to leave out. The language they use is ambiguous.
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post #24 of 167 Old 10-12-2018, 04:24 PM - Thread Starter
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You can only frame for one ratio. Ask any DP worth his or her salt. If framed for scope, by opening up the masking on non-anamorphically lensed productions, you're ruining the composition of the shot. More image does not mean a better image.
I don't know why you are being dense about this, but the point is the movies are already presented that way, but only for IMAX-filmed segments. Hence IMAX Enhanced, and hence the varying aspect ratio that is used by directors that film in IMAX, but also have conventional scope scenes in the movie. And so the expanded scenes were intentionally filmed for that aspect ratio. It's director's intent.
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post #25 of 167 Old 10-12-2018, 04:27 PM
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I don't know why you are being dense about this, but the point is the movies are already presented that way, but only for IMAX-filmed segments. Hence IMAX Enhanced, and hence the varying aspect ratio that is used by directors that film in IMAX. And so the expanded scenes were intentionally filmed for that aspect ratio. It's director's intent.

I don't know why you're not understanding what I'm saying... I'm talking about changing the non-IMAX sequences to fit a 1.78:1 ratio screen for the home release tagged as IMAX Enhanced. Not just opening the IMAX parts and leaving the scope ratio sequences scope as before... the ENTIRE film may be 1.78:1 and that is certainly not director intent. That's what I'm talking about.

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post #26 of 167 Old 10-12-2018, 04:41 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't know why you're not understanding what I'm saying... I'm talking about changing the non-IMAX sequences to fit a 1.78:1 ratio screen for the home release tagged as IMAX Enhanced. Not just opening the IMAX parts and leaving the scope ratio sequences scope as before... the ENTIRE film may be 1.78:1 and that is certainly not director intent. That's what I'm talking about.
Not once has IMAX suggested that was the plan. Is this a rumor that's going around? Because it's unfounded... So, if we can move on from a hypothetical that AFAIK is just not a thing, that would be great! To reiterate, whatever formatting you see in IMAX Enhanced content is in fact director's intent. And the expanded scenes would explicitly be the IMAX scenes, filmed that way. I've talked this out with IMAX, so there's no ambiguity.

The whole idea is it will be delivered on disc as it is in theaters. IMAX theaters, that is. And it just happens that the 16:9 aspect ratio of TVs accommodates that quite well.

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post #27 of 167 Old 10-12-2018, 04:46 PM
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Not once has IMAX suggested that was the plan. Is this a rumor that's going around? Because it's unfounded... So, if we can move on from a hypothetical that AFAIK is just not a thing, that would be great! To reiterate, whatever formatting you see in IMAX Enhanced content is in fact director's intent. And the expanded scenes would explicitly be the IMAX scenes, filmed that way. I've talked this out with IMAX, so there's no ambiguity.

The whole idea is it will be delivered on disc as it is in theaters. IMAX theaters, that is. And it just happens that the 16:9 aspect ratio of TVs accommodates that quite well.

We'll see what happens...


What are they going to do for films shown in IMAX altered from the intended ratio against the wishes of the filmmakers and forced upon them by the studios? That has happened and recently too.

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post #28 of 167 Old 10-12-2018, 04:47 PM - Thread Starter
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We'll see what happens...


What are they going to do for films shown in IMAX altered from the intended ratio against the wishes of the filmmakers and forced upon them by the studios? That has happened and recently too.
Here's my suggestion, anybody who doesn't want that IMAX treatment, buy the regular version of the UHD Blu-ray of the disc! Easy.

Obviously not an issue for IMAX documentaries.
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post #29 of 167 Old 10-12-2018, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by akadennis View Post
Crazy, right? I mean cmon. Most people, not including us enthusiast have no clue what HDR is let alone Dolby Vision. And now HDR10+ and IMAX Enhanced, gimme a break. I hope this fails. Why can't they just agree on one standard?
1) Because then they won't be able to milk us
2) Because then they'd have a monopoly, which is even worse.
3) Because that would stifle innovation
4) Because there is no such thing as technology thought-police (yet )
5) Because they are cowboy coders. Standards? Let the next coder deal with fixing all the bugs or just a full rewrite and repeat step 5)
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Last edited by BassThatHz; 10-12-2018 at 05:32 PM.
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post #30 of 167 Old 10-12-2018, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Here's my suggestion, anybody who doesn't want that IMAX treatment, buy the regular version of the UHD Blu-ray of the disc! Easy.

Obviously not an issue for IMAX documentaries.

I hope we're given a choice for titles that aren't IMAX documentaries.



Did you find out if the special IMAX mixed DTS: X track will have a discrete Center Height channel or will it be matrixed? There seems to be mixed messaging coming out of CEDIA on this point.

Listen up, studios! Dolby Atmos Lite™ print-outs must stop!!
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Reply High Dynamic Range (HDR) & Wide Color Gamut (WCG)

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a beautiful planet , imax-enhanced , journey to the south pacific



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