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post #1 of 12 Old 11-01-2018, 10:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Question Clarity needed for Dolby Vision (DV) Devices for non-DV TV's

Devices like ATV4K and AFTV 4K (2018 model) that support Dolby Vision (DV) content, require the TV to have native DV support. However, in discussing with a representative from Panasonic their DP-UB820-K player HCX processor allows DV content on TV's without native DV support.

A follow-up question I asked was "Aside from UHD Blu-ray discs that have DV content, provided I use the streaming apps within Panasonic's player, will I be able to view DV streaming content as well? (e.g. Altered Carbon) "The answer was yes.

Does this appear skeptical to anyone, or is it accurate? I need clarity on the HDR requirements for content.

The narratives on the internet are July 2018 or older, which precede the launch of Panasonic's player. One would think this is all true, then all the editors would be writing an article "Have a 4K TV, but no DV support? spend $500 and this solves your problem"

This doesn't necessarily affect me because my TV natively supports DV, but if same logic is applied, I would be able to review HDR10+ content in addition to DV content.

TV: LG 55" OLED (OLED55C8PUA)
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Last edited by domerdel81; 11-01-2018 at 12:08 PM.
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post #2 of 12 Old 11-10-2018, 08:21 AM
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Interesting topic.

My projector doesn't support DV. (Apparently I read that Sony claims it's HDR10 results in a comparable image to DV anyway.)

My ATV4K claims it's sending the PJ DV. (In the pull down menu the DV badge is displayed.)

However, DV seems to have features that HDR10 does not. Specifically the max brightness value can change from one scene to the next and the whole display reacts to that information. The Value is called MaxCLL. I don't know if it's used in practice but seems the ATV4K really is sending my pj DV because when this value is updated (not only if it's changed but just when it's updated) my pj re-negotiates the HDMI signal causing a drop out of the video.

So, I agree ... it seems a DV stream can be sent to a non DV display and I think it actually happens. So far my experience with it is horrible.

-Brian
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post #3 of 12 Old 11-11-2018, 08:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by domerdel81 View Post
Devices like ATV4K and AFTV 4K (2018 model) that support Dolby Vision (DV) content, require the TV to have native DV support. However, in discussing with a representative from Panasonic their DP-UB820-K player HCX processor allows DV content on TV's without native DV support.

A follow-up question I asked was "Aside from UHD Blu-ray discs that have DV content, provided I use the streaming apps within Panasonic's player, will I be able to view DV streaming content as well? (e.g. Altered Carbon) "The answer was yes.

Does this appear skeptical to anyone, or is it accurate? I need clarity on the HDR requirements for content.

The narratives on the internet are July 2018 or older, which precede the launch of Panasonic's player. One would think this is all true, then all the editors would be writing an article "Have a 4K TV, but no DV support? spend $500 and this solves your problem"

This doesn't necessarily affect me because my TV natively supports DV, but if same logic is applied, I would be able to review HDR10+ content in addition to DV content.
Any takers ?

TV: LG 55" OLED (OLED55C8PUA)
AVR = Denon AVR-1200W
Console: PS4 Pro
Other: nVidia Shield TV (2017)
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post #4 of 12 Old 11-11-2018, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by domerdel81 View Post
Any takers ?
Was there a specific question ? ..
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post #5 of 12 Old 11-13-2018, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Was there a specific question ? ..

doesn't it seem skeptical that the Panasonic rep is saying a UHD TV with no native HDR10+/DV support can play HDR10+/DV content through their player?

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post #6 of 12 Old 11-13-2018, 10:57 AM
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Yes.

If a TV has no HDR support then the Panny Player isn't going to be able to show HDR on it.

If he said that it's because he was confused or mis-informed or just was in the mood to try to sell stuff by spreading misinformation.

Given that a 65" HDR set can be had from Walmart today for around $600 I would suggest anyone interested in HDR invest in a set that supports HDR...

Now, DV is a bit hard to find in TVs.. at least I don't see many in town except at Best Buy ... so if DV is wanted then seek that out.
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post #7 of 12 Old 11-13-2018, 11:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes.
If a TV has no HDR support then the Panny Player isn't going to be able to show HDR on it.
If he said that it's because he was confused or mis-informed or just was in the mood to try to sell stuff by spreading misinformation.
Given that a 65" HDR set can be had from Walmart today for around $600 I would suggest anyone interested in HDR invest in a set that supports HDR...
Now, DV is a bit hard to find in TVs.. at least I don't see many in town except at Best Buy ... so if DV is wanted then seek that out.

The scenarios I was asking if the TV's had a baseline of HDR support, but no plans for HDR10+ / DV licensing (i.e. late 2016 models), would the UB820' s HCX processor be able do that since it has it's own series of HDR presets? I made sure to ask this multiple times in different scenarios, and they kept telling me the UB820 would solve that problem (but I still remained skeptical, which is why I started this thread).

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post #8 of 12 Old 11-13-2018, 12:28 PM
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Well... I don't know ... in fact... I'm not sure how you would determine if it's true or not.

Maybe if we bump the thread enough a more knowledgeable member will know.
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post #9 of 12 Old 11-13-2018, 12:38 PM
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The 820 does internal tone mapping, with an a selectable nit output. Depending on how the display its connected to handles HDR content I believe this to be a potentially unused feature or a very good feature.
What I am not clear on is what set of data the player reference to build the output. If the player is referencing the Dolby Vision metadata to build the output, then I dont see why a 500 dollar player isnt in effect turning any HDR capable display into a Dolby Vision capable display (however I strongly suspect that a display with this functionality built in would be better). Based on your conversation with Panasonic it is referencing the DV/HDR10+ to build the output, question is how much do you trust the rep you spoke with?
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post #10 of 12 Old 11-13-2018, 01:03 PM - Thread Starter
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The 820 does internal tone mapping, with an a selectable nit output. Depending on how the display its connected to handles HDR content I believe this to be a potentially unused feature or a very good feature.
What I am not clear on is what set of data the player reference to build the output. If the player is referencing the Dolby Vision metadata to build the output, then I dont see why a 500 dollar player isnt in effect turning any HDR capable display into a Dolby Vision capable display (however I strongly suspect that a display with this functionality built in would be better). Based on your conversation with Panasonic it is referencing the DV/HDR10+ to build the output, question is how much do you trust the rep you spoke with?

My trust is skeptical of the panasonic rep because I felt their forefront was more baseline tech support with a background in sales. If this were coming from someone that had more of a technical aptitude, I would be less skeptical. However, it triggered a hypothesis the reason we see players like Amazon Fire stick and apple tv 4K have support for DV is because it's relying on the TV's native support as a prerequisite, whereas the HCX processor was taking the load off the TV and has the appropriate licensing to output DV content.

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post #11 of 12 Old 11-13-2018, 02:56 PM
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HDR material can be pseudo displayed on an SDR display though proper tone-mapping and adjustment of the PQ curve. Will it be HDR? No, of course not. That said, it can get closer than one might suspect. As for DV material on a non-DV display (HDR10 capable), it can certainly be done as well. This requires either software or hardware to analyze and transform the DV to HDR10. The AppleTV does this with DV titles and most view the end result as a mixed success. Is it true to what the original DV metadata requires? Well, it can only approximate it so the results definitely vary. This then leads into Panasonics claim that their HCX processor can convert DV to either HDR10 or SDR. The short, of course it can. It's the level of accuracy that should be the real question. Panasonic has a pretty good history with their visual products so I would tend to think they are probably doing a pretty great job at it. Probably far better than Apple is.
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post #12 of 12 Old 11-13-2018, 04:10 PM - Thread Starter
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HDR material can be pseudo displayed on an SDR display though proper tone-mapping and adjustment of the PQ curve. Will it be HDR? No, of course not. That said, it can get closer than one might suspect. As for DV material on a non-DV display (HDR10 capable), it can certainly be done as well. This requires either software or hardware to analyze and transform the DV to HDR10. The AppleTV does this with DV titles and most view the end result as a mixed success. Is it true to what the original DV metadata requires? Well, it can only approximate it so the results definitely vary. This then leads into Panasonics claim that their HCX processor can convert DV to either HDR10 or SDR. The short, of course it can. It's the level of accuracy that should be the real question. Panasonic has a pretty good history with their visual products so I would tend to think they are probably doing a pretty great job at it. Probably far better than Apple is.

Thank you for the explanation. I feel that this creates a false positive regarding DV output. Not to get too much off topic, but another false positive would be the video game Red Dead Redemption 2, where test have found SDR data within an HDR container.

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