Forum Jump: 
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 55 Old 04-20-2002, 09:40 PM
Advanced Member
 
Mancubus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 624
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I used to have *REALLY* bad vertical banding when I first hooked up my AE100 with the VGA cable I had from my previous projector. I tried playing with the picture settings/timings and although it improved it a bit, it was still *VERY* annoying.

I tried making my own cable using a CAT 5e cable and some DB-15 ends. With the 35 foot cable I created the banding is *GREATLY* reduced. I.E. say the benchmark before was 100%, I would now rate it at %15. I don't even notice it unless I am looking for it. It's definately not an issue for me now.

Have you guys tried different cables? It definately made a huge difference for me.
Mancubus is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 55 Old 04-20-2002, 10:42 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
thaxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Gainesville. Fla.
Posts: 1,001
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Mancubus
What was your source? HTPC ?

Mike
thaxx is offline  
post #33 of 55 Old 04-20-2002, 10:57 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Pultzar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Seattle, Wa, USA
Posts: 1,100
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 155 Post(s)
Liked: 85
Quote:
Originally posted by JPinTO
Something odd is going on with vertical banding. I use an HTPC and spotted a little vertical banding on WIDE480 while viewing K-Pax. DIdn't think much of it, barely noticable, but it was there.

Then I watched an alternate ending on my TFT 17" monitor, and the banding was extremely noticable on the LCD monitor.

I don't know what's causing the vertical banding, but it's not the AE100's fault.
I would try watching it on a CRT monitor to see if it is there (which it probably isn't). This could be a problem with LCD devices in general. I don't see it on my CRT monitor but it is there on the AE100.
Pultzar is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #34 of 55 Old 04-20-2002, 11:28 PM
Advanced Member
 
Mancubus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 624
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
What was your source? HTPC ?
My source is a Pioneer 300+1 interlaced DVD changer being fed into an iScan v1 and input into the AE100's VGA port.
Mancubus is offline  
post #35 of 55 Old 04-20-2002, 11:31 PM
Member
 
kevinsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 142
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by aderose
I was curious too - I got it to work by going to the options menu - the cursor was on OSD, then holding down the ENTER button on the remote for a few seconds.
- Adriano
That worked, thanks!

Personal opinion and not expressed as a company employee or representative.
kevinsmith is offline  
post #36 of 55 Old 04-21-2002, 08:57 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
JPinTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by Mancubus
I used to have *REALLY* bad vertical banding when I first hooked up my AE100 with the VGA cable I had from my previous projector. I tried playing with the picture settings/timings and although it improved it a bit, it was still *VERY* annoying.

I tried making my own cable using a CAT 5e cable and some DB-15 ends. With the 35 foot cable I created the banding is *GREATLY* reduced. I.E. say the benchmark before was 100%, I would now rate it at %15. I don't even notice it unless I am looking for it. It's definately not an issue for me now.

Have you guys tried different cables? It definately made a huge difference for me.
It might be cables. I have a 25' Shielded VGA video cable from the PC -> AE100. Banding is ~ 5% visible.

I have a 6' DVI cable from the same PC (same video card-dual head ATI 7200) to the 17" TFT panel and banding was ~20%. On DIGITAL!

I never see any banding on the windows desktop. I wonder if it's DVD decoding?

- JP in TOronto
JPinTO is offline  
post #37 of 55 Old 04-21-2002, 08:59 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
JPinTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by Pultzar


I would try watching it on a CRT monitor to see if it is there (which it probably isn't). This could be a problem with LCD devices in general. I don't see it on my CRT monitor but it is there on the AE100.
I don't have a CRT monitor but since it's more visible on the 17" TFT than the AE100, it must be an LCD thing.

- JP in TOronto
JPinTO is offline  
post #38 of 55 Old 04-21-2002, 09:46 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tahustvedt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,622
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
The banding on my Hitachi is NOT cable or input related. I don't need to have anything connected to be able to see it. By showing the green test-screen they show extremely well as you can see in the picture I posted earlier. That picture was of the test pattern.
tahustvedt is offline  
post #39 of 55 Old 04-23-2002, 10:08 AM
Senior Member
 
audiovideodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Boston Area
Posts: 207
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Agreed. THe banding source if the projector itself. I can see the banding in the test pattern. Mostly with the green test, but some also with the red.
audiovideodude is offline  
post #40 of 55 Old 04-24-2002, 01:26 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Pultzar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Seattle, Wa, USA
Posts: 1,100
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 155 Post(s)
Liked: 85
Quote:
Originally posted by audiovideodude
Agreed. THe banding source if the projector itself. I can see the banding in the test pattern. Mostly with the green test, but some also with the red.
It looks like somebody was able to fix their banding problem (same symptoms as us) on their projector (not an AE100). The service menu doesn't allow any tweaks to settings. I wonder how to change the bias of the panels?

http://01900888.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=135347
Pultzar is offline  
post #41 of 55 Old 04-24-2002, 02:48 AM
Senior Member
 
THE_COW_IS_OK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: France
Posts: 437
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I Own a XP21n and I had thin vertical banding problem.

First I though the problem orignated from bad LCD pannels. Fortunatly, On my PJ, I can digitally zoom in any part of the screen. So I maxed 1 square grey area of the screen ( its is mostly visible in light grey areas) and noticed that the vertical lines became bigger.
Conclusion: The problem is not from the panel. The panel showed perfectly uniform colors in the same place there was bandings.

So I started playing with the source signal. With the help of an HTPC connected with an RGB9 pin, I noticed that depending on my graphic cards, Vertical banding moved to different places. It convinced me that the problem is in the RAMDAC clock Sync.
Instead of hitting myself because I haven't bought a PJ with DVI input, I came out with the following Possible solution:
1- Find a graphic card RamDac that is most suitable for my PJ Clock.(I use HTPC for all App: DVD,HDTV, PC Gaming, Surfing...)
2- Feed the PJ with a clean sin Current free of RFI and EMI.
3- Get better Cables.
THE_COW_IS_OK is offline  
post #42 of 55 Old 04-24-2002, 04:46 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
JPinTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by THE_COW_IS_OK
I Own a XP21n and I had thin vertical banding problem.

First I though the problem orignated from bad LCD pannels. Fortunatly, On my PJ, I can digitally zoom in any part of the screen. So I maxed 1 square grey area of the screen ( its is mostly visible in light grey areas) and noticed that the vertical lines became bigger.
Conclusion: The problem is not from the panel. The panel showed perfectly uniform colors in the same place there was bandings.

So I started playing with the source signal. With the help of an HTPC connected with an RGB9 pin, I noticed that depending on my graphic cards, Vertical banding moved to different places. It convinced me that the problem is in the RAMDAC clock Sync.
Instead of hitting myself because I haven't bought a PJ with DVI input, I came out with the following Possible solution:
1- Find a graphic card RamDac that is most suitable for my PJ Clock.(I use HTPC for all App: DVD,HDTV, PC Gaming, Surfing...)
2- Feed the PJ with a clean sin Current free of RFI and EMI.
3- Get better Cables.
I'm not sure DVI will do anything. The banding while watching a movie was way worse with DVI connection to a 17" LCD panel than it was to the projector via a 25" Video cable. :confused: :confused:

- JP in TOronto
JPinTO is offline  
post #43 of 55 Old 04-24-2002, 08:16 AM
Senior Member
 
audiovideodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Boston Area
Posts: 207
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
There might be two different banding problems with the AE100 or for what it matters, with other LCC PJs.

The one that I'm focusing on first, becuase I think it's more visible, is the banding of the PJ itself. This banding c an be shown "WITHOUT" any signal via the service menu patters.

In my case, I think it got worst lately. I admit I pay more attention to it then at the beggining, so it might be technically the same, but it effects me more since I'm concerned about it.

In a different thread tahustvedt describes a way to eliminates the banding on a Hitachi pj by changing the voltage via the Hitachi's service menus.

Well, we don't know yet how to do that with the AE100, but something just came to mind about voltage.

I cannot believe that Panasonic would release a product this badly effected by banding, so my current line of thinking, is that since most all of the pj we are dealing with are for the Japanese market, what if they were calibrtated for Japan voltage (100v ? I think) ???

Can somebody with a step down transformer check if the banding is present when using the transformer ?


audiovideodude.
audiovideodude is offline  
post #44 of 55 Old 04-24-2002, 11:54 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Pultzar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Seattle, Wa, USA
Posts: 1,100
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 155 Post(s)
Liked: 85
Quote:
Originally posted by audiovideodude

I cannot believe that Panasonic would release a product this badly effected by banding, so my current line of thinking, is that since most all of the pj we are dealing with are for the Japanese market, what if they were calibrtated for Japan voltage (100v ? I think) ???

Can somebody with a step down transformer check if the banding is present when using the transformer ?
I am using a transformer and the banding is still present.

Perfect vertical bars which are spaced evenly is mostly related to the source signal... try adjusting the position values to get this fixed.
Pultzar is offline  
post #45 of 55 Old 04-24-2002, 07:02 PM
Senior Member
 
audiovideodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Boston Area
Posts: 207
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Pultzar,

thanks for letting us know. My personal banding is a "feature" of the pj not of the signal. The position controls can make a very little difference. Zooming and defocusing make a bigger difference.


I'm trying to get to a "deeper" service menu because LOL has found that on a Yamaha with the same banding problem, changing the voltage of the green LCD via the service menu got rid of the problem.

On older Panasonic PJs the service menus are accessible via a serial port and a special software. On the other hand the AE100 doesn't have a serial port (at least a visible one). Therefore my hope is that the service menu might be available through a remote control button combination.

Hopefully we will find it.

audiovideodude
audiovideodude is offline  
post #46 of 55 Old 04-24-2002, 08:15 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Pultzar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Seattle, Wa, USA
Posts: 1,100
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 155 Post(s)
Liked: 85
Hi Audiovideodude,

I agree with you, mine has the same problem as yours. I can't imagine that these projectors don't have a service mode unless they wanted to be SOOO cheap that they just assume that the default factory settings (no tweaking) is acceptable for all projectors.

Another option would be that a serial connection is located somewhere inside of the device. Then again, would it really be acceptable that you have to open the projector to get to the service mode? I think not since I have a feeling that you can't run the projector while opened due to dust contamination.

That leaves us with button combinations. I count 20 non-power buttons on the remote and the projector. That leaves us with thousands... or millions of possible button press combinations...

Bottom line, we need some information from either a service manual or an insider!
Pultzar is offline  
post #47 of 55 Old 04-25-2002, 08:17 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tahustvedt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,622
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Maybe someone knows how to get into the service-menu of other new Panasonics like the 701 and 711, maybe the procedure is the same for the AE100. I tried the procedure for the Hitachi 5500 and it worked for my CP-X275W


Tor Arne
tahustvedt is offline  
post #48 of 55 Old 04-25-2002, 11:03 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Pultzar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Seattle, Wa, USA
Posts: 1,100
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 155 Post(s)
Liked: 85
Quote:
Originally posted by tahustvedt
Maybe someone knows how to get into the service-menu of other new Panasonics like the 701 and 711, maybe the procedure is the same for the AE100. I tried the procedure for the Hitachi 5500 and it worked for my CP-X275W


Tor Arne
I think that the 701 and 711 require a serial connection and special software, but the AE100 doesn't have a serial port that we know of.
Pultzar is offline  
post #49 of 55 Old 04-25-2002, 11:44 AM
Senior Member
 
audiovideodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Boston Area
Posts: 207
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
One desperate last resort option would be to read the AE100 IR discrete remote codes into a PC a drive a IR blaster to go over all the possible permutations of the codes cutting down some of the choice tree with some well educated guesses on what the codes could be.

Problems with this approach are :
- PJ must be on for what ? days ? weeks ?
- A camera capture software should be also set up to actually detect positive combinations (this could be the most difficult task)
- a different approach must require costant supervision, but who has the time...
-If the combination includes the power button than all bets are off


Maybe this problem had started driving me crazy...

any better ideas ???
audiovideodude is offline  
post #50 of 55 Old 05-12-2002, 09:15 AM
Advanced Member
 
jsalk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Oakland, MI
Posts: 926
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked: 180
I cured my vertical banding by adjusting the AE100 dot clock and phase with Mark's test pattern.

http://01900888.com/avs-vb/showt...threadid=90884

I am quite pleased with the results.

- Jim

SalkSound.com
Custom-crafted Speakers
jsalk is offline  
post #51 of 55 Old 05-12-2002, 09:21 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
JPinTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by jsalk
I cured my vertical banding by adjusting the AE100 dot clock and phase with Mark's test pattern.

http://01900888.com/avs-vb/showt...threadid=90884

I am quite pleased with the results.

- Jim
Did the Auto Setup not work properly??

- JP in TOronto
JPinTO is offline  
post #52 of 55 Old 05-12-2002, 11:15 AM
DRS
AVS Forum Special Member
 
DRS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 1,585
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
You definitely get better results using the test pattern over auto setup. This does seem to help the banding but not totally eliminate it.
DRS is offline  
post #53 of 55 Old 05-12-2002, 11:46 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Pultzar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Seattle, Wa, USA
Posts: 1,100
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 155 Post(s)
Liked: 85
Quote:
Originally posted by jsalk
I cured my vertical banding by adjusting the AE100 dot clock and phase with Mark's test pattern.

http://01900888.com/avs-vb/showt...threadid=90884

I am quite pleased with the results.

- Jim
This is a different banding than what we have been talking about. The banding that is mostly being discussed can be seen in the service menu test patterns without anything else hooked up to the projector.
Pultzar is offline  
post #54 of 55 Old 05-12-2002, 12:09 PM
 
ABCD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 668
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I can confirm that having the step-down transformer does not help. Also, the vertical banding is visible even if there is no input signal. It is starting to bother me, because in the lighter scenes, it looks like a "mesh" has been put in front of the picture.

My friend also has an AE100. He has seen mine and his (but not at the same time), and he saids that it is much less noticeable on his. Therefore, this appears to be projector dependent.

I really like this projector, the colors are natural out of the box, and I can easily live with the screendoor at 2X with slight defocusing. However, unless the movie is very absorbing, this is very annoying.
ABCD is offline  
post #55 of 55 Old 05-12-2002, 05:02 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Namlemez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 3,316
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
The projectors power supply is rated for 100-240v. A stepdown transformer from 120v (US) to 100v (Japan) won't accomplish much.
Namlemez is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Closed Thread Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off