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post #1 of 55 Old 03-18-2002, 03:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Just got my AE100. Been testing it most of the weekend. Mostly pleased with it except on two scores.

Firstly black levels aren't as good as I expected, but I am sure I can live with them.

The main area of concern is the presence of faint vertical banding in some parts of the panel. I have tried this on a number of different sources and it is always there. Its becomes quite distracting because your eyes follow these marks rather than the picture content.

I thought it might have been the crappy scaler through the S-Video inputs, but then setup a Radeon-based HCPC and set the resolution to 858x480 using Powerstrip. I got a very sharp picture, but the Windows default desktop is not perfectly even in brightness. This effect is not all over the panel but in serveral areas only. It is as though some of the columns of the panel are not as linear as others - this cannot be seen when the panel is fully driven, but mainly on the mid and lower brightness levels.

I have heard complaints about "screendoor", but this is not it - the overall pixel structure is really unobjectionable and if this were screendoor then the effect would be the same all over.

Any Panny owners seeing the same thing? I need to know whether this is a fault or this is just the way it is.

Cheers
Slightly dissapointed
John

Apologies to those who have already seen this thread on avforums - just want to see the reaction here.
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post #2 of 55 Old 03-18-2002, 04:58 AM
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Banding is a LCD problem not AE100 alone. Search here and you'll see you're not alone. It plagues cheaper LCD units due to poorer quality control vs. lower standards set for cheaper LCDs. LCD can be perfect but will cost more or require repair of these imperfect panels. Manufacturer does not like to fix this as they hate fixing 1-2 dead pixels. If yours is from Japan you may be out of luck. Try sitting back a bit and defocuses a bit.

Huey ;-]
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post #3 of 55 Old 03-18-2002, 10:48 AM
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Mine does the same thing and it is visible during bright scenes with panning type motion. Since this projector was cheap (relatively speaking) I'm trying to keep it from bothering me. Perhaps it can be fixed, but I'm not sure.

I've heard that even the expensive projectors have this (somebody with the expensive Hitachi LCOS had this issue) so you aren't alone.
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post #4 of 55 Old 03-18-2002, 11:35 AM
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You should really not see the banding except during pans. Look for Mark Rejhon's pixel perfect bitmap to adjust dot clock and phase. I'll upload it to my website later if you cannot find it.

Also, as mentioned previously a FL-D filter and a slight defocus helps out quite a bit.
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post #5 of 55 Old 03-18-2002, 04:13 PM
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I have the Panny 711XU and have the same banding, but it is over the whole picture. I tried to adjust dot clock and phase, but it didn't fix the problem. Panasonic is sending me a loaner pj today , I should get it tomorrow, sending in my 711XU Wed. for them to fix.

Mike
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post #6 of 55 Old 03-18-2002, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by thaxx
I have the Panny 711XU and have the same banding, but it is over the whole picture. I tried to adjust dot clock and phase, but it didn't fix the problem. Panasonic is sending me a loaner pj today , I should get it tomorrow, sending in my 711XU Wed. for them to fix.
Please let us know if the loaner PJ has the same problem. It sounds like this happens a lot and they only fix it when people complain.
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post #7 of 55 Old 03-18-2002, 05:01 PM
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Will do..
I asked the service guy if I could keep the PJ loaner if I liked it. But they don't have a 711XU, just a 711U. He said I probably wouldn't want to keep the loaner since it wasn't the XU model.

Mike
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post #8 of 55 Old 03-21-2002, 09:17 PM
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I've been wondering what people have been talking about... I haven't seen any vertical banding on my unit.

Tonight I played around with the different resolutions on the AE100. I setup my HTPC for 1280x720 (720P) output. I saw the vertical banding on bright backgrounds. It wasn't faint, it was quite noticable. I freaked out.

Went back to the native 856x480 (480P) and it was nonexistent. :confused: :confused:

It also is not existent on component fed prog.scan DVD from RP56.

So it obviously plagues higher resolutions. Maybe it is a scaling issue.

- JP

- JP in TOronto
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post #9 of 55 Old 03-21-2002, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jpinto
I've been wondering what people have been talking about... I haven't seen any vertical banding on my unit.

Tonight I played around with the different resolutions on the AE100. I setup my HTPC for 1280x720 (720P) output. I saw the vertical banding on bright backgrounds. It wasn't faint, it was quite noticable. I freaked out.

Went back to the native 856x480 (480P) and it was nonexistent. :confused: :confused:

It also is not existent on component fed prog.scan DVD from RP56.

So it obviously plagues higher resolutions. Maybe it is a scaling issue.

- JP
You saw vertical banding because you pixel clock/phase wasn't set properly. I saw this at first and freaked out myself, it looks horrible!

The verticle banding that I am talking about is visible even with the test patterns built into the projector. It isn't a scaling issue, unfortunately.
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post #10 of 55 Old 03-21-2002, 09:28 PM
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Hi JP,

The AE100 faint vertical banding depends on the source signal. (If you guys are talking the same faint vertical banding as I'm) I'm still trying to find out when and how the vertical banding can be more or less visible.

Now viewing from only 1.2 screen width, I must try everything to get the best picture...

regards,

Li On
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post #11 of 55 Old 03-22-2002, 04:42 AM - Thread Starter
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I am hoping to take some photos of the effect at the w/e. If I can capture correctly how it appears to the eye, I will try to upload some shots for comparsion purposes.
John
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post #12 of 55 Old 03-22-2002, 05:43 AM
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Li On---

The banding isn't really "faint" to my eyes... it is very noticable. A 10-12 pixel band right across the entire screen.

As I mentioned, it is definitely source signal based: 720P has it... 480P doesnt. I don't know what else has it or doesn't. I'm sticking to 480P--- the projector loves WIDE480-- it looks fantastic.

- JP

- JP in TOronto
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post #13 of 55 Old 03-22-2002, 09:57 AM
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You could try adjusting the timing (in the picture menu I believe). It got rid of some jitter and improved the picture quality some.
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post #14 of 55 Old 03-22-2002, 10:32 AM
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Thaxx,

Did you get the loaner? How does it look? I've noticed the same thing on my 711XU. At first, thought it was just the source, but now I don't know...
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post #15 of 55 Old 03-22-2002, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jpinto
Li On---

The banding isn't really "faint" to my eyes... it is very noticable. A 10-12 pixel band right across the entire screen.

As I mentioned, it is definitely source signal based: 720P has it... 480P doesnt. I don't know what else has it or doesn't. I'm sticking to 480P--- the projector loves WIDE480-- it looks fantastic.

- JP
The thick bands related to the source are because of the timing. If you are using the VGA input, go into the Position menu and select the "AUTO" feature. This should remove them. If not, the best way is to use a pixel perfect wallpaper via HTPC (search the forum, I don't have the link right now).

The banding that I'm talking about is only a few pixels wide, spaced a few pixels appart.
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post #16 of 55 Old 03-22-2002, 10:50 AM
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I have a Hitachi CP-X275W XGA LCD-projector. It has very bad banding on the green LCD-panel. It shows when I choose a green test-picture in the menu of the projector, and when any semi-bright or green pictures were displayed. It is not source related. Plattoon made the banding very obvious becasue of all the dusty brown scenes.

I sent the projector for repair yesterday because of the banding and a stuck pixel.


BTW!
Here's a picture of the banding on the green panel. It's much more visible in real life:
http://home.c2i.net/ahustvedt/images/banding.jpg

Ok. Maybe not MUCH more visible. :)

Tor Arne
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post #17 of 55 Old 03-22-2002, 11:40 AM
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Yes, I got the 711 loaner, and the banning is worse on the loaner. It seems to only be real bad with my HDTV receiver, but it is on every channel, not just HDTV. The strange part is, the loaner looks good watching a DVD and seeing my desk top through the RBG port on the pj. But my unit I could see the banning on my pc desktop. Thats why this is so confusing, to wheather it is a source problem, or the projector. The picture is perfect running 480p on my panny rp56 using the same breakout cable I use, when I watch HDTV through my Receiver. I wish someone knew for sure what causes this. I sent my pj to Panasonic, they should get it today. I have a feeling, there going to tell me it is the source.

Mike
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post #18 of 55 Old 03-22-2002, 11:50 AM
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I forgot. This is the e-mail I got from Tech support after I sent them a note decribing mt 711's problem along with a picture....


It sounds like you may have a bad LCD panel. I recommend you contact
your
dealer or get the unit to a service center

Go to our website www.panasonic.com and select the "Customer Support
Option", then select the "Find A Servicer" option. Then enter the
"Model
Number" and enter your "Zip Code"


I sent it straight to Panasonic.

Mike
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post #19 of 55 Old 03-22-2002, 02:26 PM
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Here's a pic of what I see with my Toshiba HDTV receiver. It's the menu.
Currently showing 1080i.
LL

Mike
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post #20 of 55 Old 03-22-2002, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pultzar


The thick bands related to the source are because of the timing. If you are using the VGA input, go into the Position menu and select the "AUTO" feature. This should remove them. If not, the best way is to use a pixel perfect wallpaper via HTPC (search the forum, I don't have the link right now).

The banding that I'm talking about is only a few pixels wide, spaced a few pixels appart.
I went back and used the AUTO option on the position menu. The result was identical: the bands are still there on 720P mode... but nonexistent on 480P.

- JP in TOronto
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post #21 of 55 Old 04-19-2002, 10:18 PM
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Thaxx, whatever happened - did you get the problem resolved? I have a 711XU and have similar banding. Can Panasonic fix it?

Thanks,

Flipper
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post #22 of 55 Old 04-20-2002, 01:57 AM
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Great! yet another new projector phobia running arround, thanks guys :)

Of course i had to run to my AE and looked for this banding, I am glad to say that after trying everything I could I did not see any banding using either my progressive dvd or htpc at native resolution. *phew*

I agree with other posts on bad settings, it took me a while to get the htpc settings correctly even with li on's post and the test pattern. and Jpinto, if you do not get banding with one resolution then it is unlikely it is a faulty lcd, probably a setup issue.

kev

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post #23 of 55 Old 04-20-2002, 02:00 AM - Thread Starter
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I took my AE100 back to the supplier and had the chance to compare two other samples of the AE100. The vertical banding to which I was referring can be seen using the internal test signals from the pj and are not a feature of the input source and setting.

As documented elsewhere, if you hold down the enter button on the options menu (of the AE100) for a few seconds, then you get the service menus. The bottom menu (I forget what its called) has a bunch of basic test patterns. The arrow keys allow you to cycle through the patterns. besides being really useful for looking for dead pixels, these patterns also show the effect quite well that I described in the original post. One of the tests is pure white that can be cycled to show red, green and blue.

On my pj the white and especially the green are not of a pure brightness across the panel and have a sort of banding or streaking. I had thought that this was just my PJ, but the other two samples were very similar - none of them displaying a pure colour across the panel. So it seems that this is a "feature" of this PJ and that I am just going to have to put up with it. At least I know that I don't have a duff one. The supplier offered a refund if I was not happy, but I decided that I can put up with this minor annoyance as I really like the picture otherwise.

John
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post #24 of 55 Old 04-20-2002, 11:42 AM
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I have a Sanyo PLV-60 and experienced the same. I could compensate those vertical lines adjusting some DAC-settings in the service menu.

The bands are more perceivable in the ceiling mount position than opposed to table top. I think it may be related to room temperature as weel as I saw those bands better last summer on very hot days. Now the bands are only visible in 1% of scenes, but only if you know what to look for (a pity that I do ;-) ). If there is lot of detail the bands are not detectable at all. Right now for example I'm watching NFLeurope Amsterdam vs. Berlin, and can not see any banding at all.

The bands I see are not only on greens but on all colors, it's best detectible on 30% grey.

When the projector was new I could not see any bands at all. They appeared at apr. 500 hours of use.

Happy viewing,
BigRalf:-)

Happy viewing,
BigRalf:-)
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post #25 of 55 Old 04-20-2002, 12:29 PM
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The only time my 711XU has the banding is in 1080i.
Panasonic still has my pj. there waiting on a part that is backordered. (optic block) Hope this clears it up. I've already put 160 hours on there demo. Also I don't have the banding on my service menu colored screens.

Mike
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post #26 of 55 Old 04-20-2002, 12:49 PM
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hmmm - I sew the "banding" from an HTPC DVD. I'm going to try the service menus, but I'm afraid I'm going to be talking to Panasonic soon.

Flipper G.
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post #27 of 55 Old 04-20-2002, 05:12 PM
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johnm60 wrote:
"As documented elsewhere, if you hold down the enter button on the options menu (of the AE100) for a few seconds, then you get the service menus. The bottom menu (I forget what its called) has a bunch of basic test patterns. The arrow keys allow you to cycle through the patterns. besides being really useful for looking for dead pixels, "

In the off chance that this is not a joke, can somebody give better instructions to the "service menus" of the AE100? Nothing I have tried has worked and I can't find any info searching here.
kev

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post #28 of 55 Old 04-20-2002, 06:42 PM
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I was curious too - I got it to work by going to the options menu - the cursor was on OSD, then holding down the ENTER button on the remote for a few seconds.

I could use help understanding some of the options though - specifically PIC SHIFT, RUNTIME PRT and AUTOSETUP.

- Adriano
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post #29 of 55 Old 04-20-2002, 08:55 PM
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I use the component input and I see faint banding- only really noticable when the image pans on bright backgrounds.

Andrew B.
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post #30 of 55 Old 04-20-2002, 08:56 PM
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Something odd is going on with vertical banding. I use an HTPC and spotted a little vertical banding on WIDE480 while viewing K-Pax. DIdn't think much of it, barely noticable, but it was there.

Then I watched an alternate ending on my TFT 17" monitor, and the banding was extremely noticable on the LCD monitor.

I don't know what's causing the vertical banding, but it's not the AE100's fault.

- JP in TOronto
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